Another Business Leaves Meredith

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by tis

When a business isn't local any more you don't get the same service. Just the other day people on FB were complaining about Amerigas, Rhymes, Irving, Eastern. All of them are companies that used to be local but aren't any more.

As an Irving customer, (soon not to be) I have had poor service and had been running on fumes before they said they would “have a truck in the area”
What BS. Auto delivery my ass...have had to call most times in the coldest season to ask for delivery.
Going with a more “local” company but they can’t put me in service until December 3rd due to heavy schedule. Hope it’s worth the wait...meanwhile, I may have to call Irving one more time before then.
I will request a partial fill as I don’t want the tanks full when they come to take them away.
I will add that Irving people are always polite and cordial on the phone even though they don’t deliver quickly enough.

[FlyingScot]

One thing we all need to remember is that local businesses are typically more expensive. Amerigas, Irving and others reduce local service in order to cut prices (and increase profit). Next time you're looking for the best deal, maybe don't sweat it if the local guy is a bit pricier

[dickiej]

My HVAC guy contracted out his customer service department....when I lived in Massachusetts, I would call Methuen for service and they would answer the phone. Just before we moved, I called and got someone from the Philippines...could barely speak English...I couldn't understand them...had to keep saying, "excuse me?"...

[MAXUM]

Also don't forget the impact that COVID has had on many of these businesses, especially ones that have people in the field with direct contact with the public. Some of that is due to government controls, some is the private sector - specifically when it comes to employers and liability. Furthermore the impacts it has had on supply chains as well.

You cannot severely restrict things and not have a domino effect.

This is not to meant to say what is in play is right or wrong. Just that it is impacting many service providers.

[Descant]

Recall that Covid started near the end of the winter heating season. Tanks were full, weather was getting warmer. We don't really know what will happen this winter. If there are major supply changes e.g. no fracking, that won't have an impact for many months. Save this thread and read it again in a year.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by dickiej

My HVAC guy contracted out his customer service department....when I lived in Massachusetts, I would call Methuen for service and they would answer the phone. Just before we moved, I called and got someone from the Philippines...could barely speak English...I couldn't understand them...had to keep saying, "excuse me?"...

Forget the issue with understanding folks on the telephone; it seems to be a real problem all over the USA and it seems to be getting a lot worse over the last 20 years.

[fatlazyless]

At the end of August I emailed Amerigas, presumably somewhere in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, and told them I wanted my message to go sta-raight to the King, himself ...... you know the King of Prussia ..... and sure enough that tank was filled the very next day ..... with the bestest quality propane ever produced in the great propane State of Pennsylvania.

Like, why bother with that never ending, oil burner service ...... what, with all the tune-ups, nozzles, electrodes, pumps and filthy soot boiler/furnace/chimney cleaning that goes with oil, when there's clean burning, gravity fed propane ...... good for outside tank storage down to minus 25-below zero.

Furthermore, by communicating by email it automatically puts it in writing, easy to use again the next time for your propane refill.

Hey Amerigas ..... it's about that time, again .... plus Amerigas-Laconia has a truck with an extra long 150' hose so it can get to problematic snow deliveries.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

At the end of August I emailed Amerigas, presumably somewhere in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, and told them I wanted my message to go sta-raight to the King, himself ...... you know the King of Prussia ..... and sure enough that tank was filled the very next day ..... with the bestest quality propane ever produced in the great propane State of Pennsylvania.

Like, why bother with that never ending, oil burner service ...... what, with all the tune-ups, nozzles, electrodes, pumps and filthy soot boiler/furnace/chimney cleaning that goes with oil, when there's clean burning, gravity fed propane ...... good for outside tank storage down to minus 25-below zero.

Furthermore, by communicating by email it automatically puts it in writing, easy to use again the next time for your propane refill.

Hey Amerigas ..... it's about that time, again .... plus Amerigas-Laconia has a truck with an extra long 150' hose so it can get to problematic snow deliveries.

From NPR....

Propane can be confusing for some consumers because per gallon it is cheaper than heating oil, but because it contains less energy per gallon. OEP data puts propane at 40 percent more expensive than oil for space heating.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

From NPR....

Propane can be confusing for some consumers because per gallon it is cheaper than heating oil, but because it contains less energy per gallon. OEP data puts propane at 40 percent more expensive than oil for space heating.

Hmmm--I think this chart is also confusing. It describes electricity as the most expensive, but obviously that is with outdated baseboards, and is not the case with electric mini splits.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Hmmm--I think this chart is also confusing. It describes electricity as the most expensive, but obviously that is with outdated baseboards, and is not the case with electric mini splits.

Right, I would venture to say that those mini splits are in a category of their own. Although correct me if I'm wrong but those are considered to be more like a "space heater" than a whole home solution? I didn't read the entire article to see exactly how they derived these numbers but did find it interesting.

However you slice it I think this is accurate in that heating with electricity is generally the most expensive.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Right, I would venture to say that those mini splits are in a category of their own. Although correct me if I'm wrong but those are considered to be more like a "space heater" than a whole home solution? I didn't read the entire article to see exactly how they derived these numbers but did find it interesting.

However you slice it I think this is accurate in that heating with electricity is generally the most expensive.

Mini splits were not suitable for a whole home 10 or so years ago. But they are now--our Massachusetts house was built 3 years ago, mini splits only. I did some rough calcs at the time, I think they are about half the price of oil to run them.

[Stilljester]

I believe the chart is simply the cost to generate 1 million BTUs per a specific fuel source (Cost in NH per the title) so it is agnostic regarding the space itself & the underlying efficiency to heat or cool it.

The British Thermal Unit, or BTU, is an energy unit. It is approximately the energy needed to heat one pound of water by 1 degree Fahrenheit. 1 BTU = 1,055 joules, 252 calories, 0.293 watt-hour or the energy released by burning one match. 1 watt is approximately 3.412 BTU per hour

This chart will change drastically based on the price (cost) assumption of the fuel source itself.

[Patofnaud]

Originally Posted by Stilljester

I believe the chart is simply the cost to generate 1 million BTUs per a specific fuel source (Cost in NH per the title) so it is agnostic regarding the space itself & the underlying efficiency to heat or cool it.

The British Thermal Unit, or BTU, is an energy unit. It is approximately the energy needed to heat one pound of water by 1 degree Fahrenheit. 1 BTU = 1,055 joules, 252 calories, 0.293 watt-hour or the energy released by burning one match. 1 watt is approximately 3.412 BTU per hour

This chart will change drastically based on the price (cost) assumption of the fuel source itself.

Correct. For any given fuel your end cost would be based on the efficiency of the use of it. That is why heat pumps (used in min-splits) cost less to run than electric baseboards while providing the same end effect.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Please don’t do an eye roll here....I have never heard of mini splits. If a homeowner with electric baseboard heat wanted to switch to the newer more efficient mini split system, what is entailed, and would it be terribly expensive to do? We have electric bb, and propane system was added later. I am wondering if it makes sense to do the mini split system since it sounds efficient and reasonable in cost to operate, even with N.H.’s high electric rates. Small cape, about 2200 s.f. Thanks for opinions.
Sue

[fatlazyless]

In Canada, by a Canada law, have heard that all propane heaters must be the design that continues to make heat when the electricity is down. Is this really true?

Is not the case in USA or in NH, and you can get either a propane warm air space heater that continues to work when the electricity is down or goes out until the electricity comes back on ...... which can make a big difference if the power is out for 24-hours in very cold temps. The non electricity dependent propane heaters operate on the propane pressure within the propane storage tank, and have a pilot light and a 12-volt dc Piezo (whatever that is?) self-generating hot air heat that can work a remote wall mounted thermostat.

It has a propane pilot light, which is the key design to the non electricity dependent systems.

A Rinnai direct vent will shut off without electricity, and come back on, when the electricity is back.

[MAXUM]

The use of pilot lights on gas appliances is being replaced by on demand ignition which are fired by A/C but most decent stuff has a battery backup should the lights go out. It's a safety thing.

This all comes down to properly preparing your situation in the event of power loss. Paying a steep premium for propane cause it works without electricity is pretty short sighted.

Installing a transfer switch and purchasing a portable generator is short money and can give you plenty of power for the essentials when needed.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

As an Irving customer, (soon not to be) I have had poor service and had been running on fumes before they said they would “have a truck in the area”
What BS. Auto delivery my ass...have had to call most times in the coldest season to ask for delivery.
Going with a more “local” company but they can’t put me in service until December 3rd due to heavy schedule. Hope it’s worth the wait...meanwhile, I may have to call Irving one more time before then.
I will request a partial fill as I don’t want the tanks full when they come to take them away.
I will add that Irving people are always polite and cordial on the phone even though they don’t deliver quickly enough.

If you remember that wind storm a few years ago, my generator ran for four days and we weren't home and didn't want to run out. Rhymes said we were due in two weeks. I explained about the storm but it didn't matter. We were due in two weeks and that was it. I called Wolfeboro Oil and they came delivered to us. (We own the tanks.) When spring came we switched to Wolfeboro Oil and had them put their name on the tanks in huge letters and guess what. Rhymes delivered to them anyway. Irving insisted I didn't need oil a couple of times when I was almost empty and though I begged they would not deliver. Told me if it wasn't empty and they delivered it would be an extra 200. I said fine, but they still wouldn't deliver. Because I knew one of the truck drivers, he rescued me. Needless to say both companies are no longer. BTW, this was automatic delivery in both places.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

As an Irving customer, (soon not to be) I have had poor service and had been running on fumes before they said they would “have a truck in the area”
What BS. Auto delivery my ass...have had to call most times in the coldest season to ask for delivery.
Going with a more “local” company but they can’t put me in service until December 3rd due to heavy schedule. Hope it’s worth the wait...meanwhile, I may have to call Irving one more time before then.
I will request a partial fill as I don’t want the tanks full when they come to take them away.
I will add that Irving people are always polite and cordial on the phone even though they don’t deliver quickly enough.

That's why we left...same problems. Ran out of gas twice on auto delivery
once when we were in Fla ...thank God my neighbor checked the house before everything froze