Sununu - 1,000 Cases Per Day - Covid-19

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Curious...what’s everyone doing about Thanksgiving? We are invited to our son’s home, which we’re really looking forward to, but there would be 5 of them, 2 of us, our D.I.L’s mother and sister, plus her brother’s family of 3. I am no mathematician but that sounds like 12, with 5 from MA, 2 from NH, 4 from CT, and 1 Floridian. Yikes! I know it’s probably a no brainer, but I don’t want to be the one to cancel. On the other hand, our hosts might be relieved.....they love doing it year after year, but this is different, of course. Sorry for rambling.

We were psyched to be hosting our 3 kids and 2 of their SOs. But the kids began to get nervous about each other. I spent a couple of days not wanting to be the one to cancel, then it was sort of forced upon me by a son. We are now having just our daughter, for a grand total of 3. I'm very upset about it.

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

We were psyched to be hosting our 3 kids and 2 of their SOs. But the kids began to get nervous about each other. I spent a couple of days not wanting to be the one to cancel, then it was sort of forced upon me by a son. We are now having just our daughter, for a grand total of 3. I'm very upset about it.

I know....that stinks! But...on the other hand, if avoiding this plague can be accomplished by giving up the one day...then it makes perfect sense to do that. Pulling the trigger is hard....having everyone together means a lot to all. Oh my, what to do, what to do.........

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

I know....that stinks! But...on the other hand, if avoiding this plague can be accomplished by giving up the one day...then it makes perfect sense to do that. Pulling the trigger is hard....having everyone together means a lot to all. Oh my, what to do, what to do.........

I read something in the paper yesterday. It said if you gather for Thanksgiving this year, there’s a good chance it will be your last one. Very sobering.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I read something in the paper yesterday. It said if you gather for Thanksgiving this year, there’s a good chance it will be your last one. Very sobering.

That’s just a ridiculous statement and scare tactic! With a 99%+ chance of recovering if you get the virus to say this would be your last Thanksgiving if you gather, is just plain uncalled for...

Dan

[pondguy]

I will be staying home and enjoying a Maria Callender's Turkey pot pie.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Top-Water

Ha Ha

Usually, at Thanksgiving and Christmas while eating a $2.48 Marie Callender turkey pot pie, http://www.mariecallendersmeals.com/...turkey-pot-pie ....... all totally alone, just me and Marie, for the umpteenth year in a row ..... now ..... too many years ...... I just have a good long cry and then go outside, out to the cold outdoors, and go rake some leaves or shovel some snow ...... but no crying for me this year, not this year, not in 2020.

Because, what really matters is waking up every new morning without a newly formed, overnight minor build-up of phlegm in my lungs ..... which is how it starts.

Good morning ....... yes, I'm still alive! ...... and ...... very happy to be here!

Is definitely better to be lonely and miserable than to suffocate to death, as breathing becomes more difficult with each passing day.

Besides, I would so miss my #1 best girl friend, ever-ever-ever ...... that Marie Callender! ...... ...... ho-ho-ho!

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

That’s just a ridiculous statement and scare tactic! With a 99%+ chance of recovering if you get the virus to say this would be your last Thanksgiving if you gather, is just plain uncalled for...

Dan

Yes. I agree. I’ve been seriously thinking about canceling my paper even though it’s one of the things I love to do most to start my day. I haven’t gone anywhere in months and it doesn’t seem like I will ever be able to get back to normal.
It would be nice if someone could give us some encouraging news for a change.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

I read something in the paper yesterday. It said if you gather for Thanksgiving this year, there’s a good chance it will be your last one. Very sobering.

I’d love to know which newspaper and the source of this information. To me that is a load of nonsense.

Yes there are more positives but mostly mild and asymptotic cases. Notice the hospitals are not being overcrowded like before and the recovery rate is over 99%. I’m sorry at those numbers no one it going to stop our family from getting together for thanksgiving and Christmas.

As I said they already previously scared us into not celebrating Easter and Palm Sunday this year we will do our best but at the same time live our lives. Life is too short no matter what not to celebrate our family.


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[FlyingScot]

Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you.

For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you.

For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

Pick a spot.... Flip a coin... Make a decision....

Fear Mongering at its finest!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you.

For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

So is this what it’s come down to?....We take an online risk calculator to determine if we are going spend time with our family?

Sad...VERY sad....and not for me!

Dan

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

So is this what it’s come down to?....We take an online risk calculator to determine if we are going spend time with our family?

Sad...VERY sad....and not for me!

Dan

I agree it's very sad. We did not use it in our deliberations, but I thought it might be helpful to those trying to understand the risk.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you.

For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk.

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

That’s the bottom line. Forget the chart, it’s about personal comfort level.

We as a family have decided that we are comfortable with assembling for the holidays and that we take as many precautions as possible.

For others if you are not comfortable then don’t do it as you will not enjoy your family if you are apprehensive about being there to begin with.

To each his own.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Here's a risk calculator that seems well-grounded. Enter your number of people, pick your spot on the map. Flip a coin on the ascertainment bias. Then decide if the risk is worth it to you. For us, it was the actual risk plus various individuals' stress levels around risk. https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

You can party-hearty in Vermont!

[persistence]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I’d love to know which newspaper and the source of this information. To me that is a load of nonsense.

Yes there are more positives but mostly mild and asymptotic cases. Notice the hospitals are not being overcrowded like before and the recovery rate is over 99%. I’m sorry at those numbers no one it going to stop our family from getting together for thanksgiving and Christmas.

As I said they already previously scared us into not celebrating Easter and Palm Sunday this year we will do our best but at the same time live our lives. Life is too short no matter what not to celebrate our family.


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Yes yes YES!

Can we please start to talk about the recovery rates?!? All along the covid tracking has kept neg results and they far outnumbered the pos. I know, anyone I discussed it with said there just too many false positives to rely on that number.

Well come on now, what are we doing?

In MA we are now;

masked in all public places.
Just had 2 weeks rink closures.
Most schools remote ( ours just went remote for 2 weeks but back in class now).
Restaurants closed at 9:30 pm (the final nail for sure).
10pm curfews
Limits to Tday / Xmas

YET! The numbers are skyrocketing...oh, and baker Keeps touting kids need to be in school. Can’t have Your cake and eat it too. I’m sorry...I don’t see how throwing darts at the wall is science.


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[AC2717]

Originally Posted by persistence

Yes yes YES!

Can we please start to talk about the recovery rates?!? All along the covid tracking has kept neg results and they far outnumbered the pos. I know, anyone I discussed it with said there just too many false positives to rely on that number.

Well come on now, what are we doing?

In MA we are now;

masked in all public places.
Just had 2 weeks rink closures.
Most schools remote ( ours just went remote for 2 weeks but back in class now).
Restaurants closed at 9:30 pm (the final nail for sure).
10pm curfews
Limits to Tday / Xmas

YET! The numbers are skyrocketing...oh, and baker Keeps touting kids need to be in school. Can’t have Your cake and eat it too. I’m sorry...I don’t see how throwing darts at the wall is science.


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Not to mention Marty Walsh is now saying the workplace is one of the two main reason for the surge. the workplace?? What workplace? Almost all are closed. Also said social gatherings, well that is broad, again what about the protesting for and then celebration groups over the past two weeks. Oh and by the way they don't want to but they will send the police to your house if 911 is called on you by your neighbors for having more than 10 people. Anyone ever hear of the Intolerable Acts?

If you look at the MA dept of Health Chart (attached), being at home is the most risk of catching it.

When is comes to the hockey shutdown and for some reason they got it out for hockey:
When they shut hockey down in their executive order they said 30 clusters creating 107 cases they shut us down on 10/23 and opened hockey back up 11/7- just in youth and men’s league hockey

The chart from the MA dept of health Shows that between 10/11 and 11/7 (mind you hockey was shut down for two out of those three weeks) that youth organized athletics and camps, that means any and every organized sports activity
14 clusters for 41 cases Prior to 10/11 and 24 clusters for 17 cases (going back to the March shutdown)

So here you go
1 - First off how do you have fewer cases than clusters if a cluster is defined by two or more cases from one spot
2 - Total across all sports is 58 cases going back to start of shutdown and including the shutdown, less than the 107 they said in executive order to shut down hockey
3 - where did they get their numbers to justify the hockey shut down and no other sport
4 - the numbers before the shut down were lower than during the shut down period


I was one that was in favor at the beginning, waiting to see the numbers and science and conditions, now I am in the camp of Enough is enough, people should be able to live their lives and make their own risk decisions. Oh and to those that say its for others not you?
Almost half a million people die from smoking every year and about that 25-30,000 are from second hand smoke, yet smoking is legal and you don't have to wear a mask. Same could be said for Alcohol related deaths, and other communicable viruses/diseases.

[Pricestavern]

Originally Posted by AC2717

The chart from the MA dept of health Shows that between 10/11 and 11/7 (mind you hockey was shut down for two out of those three weeks) that youth organized athletics and camps, that means any and every organized sports activity
14 clusters for 41 cases Prior to 10/11 and 24 clusters for 17 cases (going back to the March shutdown)

So here you go
1 - First off how do you have fewer cases than clusters if a cluster is defined by two or more cases from one spot
2 - Total across all sports is 58 cases going back to start of shutdown and including the shutdown, less than the 107 they said in executive order to shut down hockey
3 - where did they get their numbers to justify the hockey shut down and no other sport
4 - the numbers before the shut down were lower than during the shut down period.

Can't speak to points 2 and 3 but...
1 - Fewer 'Confirmed' cases than clusters. 'Confirmed' being the operative word here.
4 - Increase in cases always lag by about 2 weeks. If they are seeing numbers that prompt a shut down, the numbers during the shutdown will probably by higher than when the shut down was ordered. In fact, the increased numbers is proof that their concern was justified.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Pricestavern

Can't speak to points 2 and 3 but...
1 - Fewer 'Confirmed' cases than clusters. 'Confirmed' being the operative word here.
4 - Increase in cases always lag by about 2 weeks. If they are seeing numbers that prompt a shut down, the numbers during the shutdown will probably by higher than when the shut down was ordered. In fact, the increased numbers is proof that their concern was justified.

concern was justified on 17 confirmed cases (leading up to the shut down) across the whole state for all youth sports? I can't agree with that, and as far as the confirmed cases lag, yes I do agree that is how it works, but why then do they allow people to move around with a Covid negative result in their hand if it could take up to two weeks for it to show. as the rule is quarantine for 2 weeks or show a negative covid test

[Pricestavern]

Originally Posted by AC2717

concern was justified on 17 confirmed cases (leading up to the shut down) across the whole state for all youth sports? I can't agree with that, and as far as the confirmed cases lag, yes I do agree that is how it works, but why then do they allow people to move around with a Covid negative result in their hand if it could take up to two weeks for it to show. as the rule is quarantine for 2 weeks or show a negative covid test

All good points. Testing is very problematic.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by AC2717

Not to mention Marty Walsh is now saying the workplace is one of the two main reason for the surge. the workplace?? What workplace? Almost all are closed. Also said social gatherings, well that is broad, again what about the protesting for and then celebration groups over the past two weeks. Oh and by the way they don't want to but they will send the police to your house if 911 is called on you by your neighbors for having more than 10 people. Anyone ever hear of the Intolerable Acts?

If you look at the MA dept of Health Chart (attached), being at home is the most risk of catching it.

When is comes to the hockey shutdown and for some reason they got it out for hockey:
When they shut hockey down in their executive order they said 30 clusters creating 107 cases they shut us down on 10/23 and opened hockey back up 11/7- just in youth and men’s league hockey

The chart from the MA dept of health Shows that between 10/11 and 11/7 (mind you hockey was shut down for two out of those three weeks) that youth organized athletics and camps, that means any and every organized sports activity
14 clusters for 41 cases Prior to 10/11 and 24 clusters for 17 cases (going back to the March shutdown)

So here you go
1 - First off how do you have fewer cases than clusters if a cluster is defined by two or more cases from one spot
2 - Total across all sports is 58 cases going back to start of shutdown and including the shutdown, less than the 107 they said in executive order to shut down hockey
3 - where did they get their numbers to justify the hockey shut down and no other sport
4 - the numbers before the shut down were lower than during the shut down period


I was one that was in favor at the beginning, waiting to see the numbers and science and conditions, now I am in the camp of Enough is enough, people should be able to live their lives and make their own risk decisions. Oh and to those that say its for others not you?
Almost half a million people die from smoking every year and about that 25-30,000 are from second hand smoke, yet smoking is legal and you don't have to wear a mask. Same could be said for Alcohol related deaths, and other communicable viruses/diseases.

update to the chart from last week:
the numbers before the MA shut down went down???? but those were over a month old and should not have changes oh wait

and the shut down period numbers almost all went down, except for the household clusters which rose.

The State's numbers not mine. I am just a citizens watching and doing my own research on the virus cases and fear. The state shut down hockey due to the case info prior to 10/18. 30 clusters for 107 cases. Now clusters across All Organized Athletics/Camps in the state is 30 clusters for 7, yes 7 cases for that period and the clusters went down from 14 to 12 for the 3 week period and the cases went down from 41 to 31

again the definition of a cluster is more than two cases coming from the same spot.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by persistence

Yes yes YES!

Can we please start to talk about the recovery rates?!? All along the covid tracking has kept neg results and they far outnumbered the pos. I know, anyone I discussed it with said there just too many false positives to rely on that number.

I agree that the recovery rates are good news. But if your primary metric is deaths, then this is sort of irrelevant. We are now at something like 250K in the US, and climbing--a thousand more every day or so

[Garcia]

I work in a school that is open full time. In my community, we had a big spike in cases that were traced back to Halloween parties and some private parties at restaurants/bars. Right now there are about a dozen schools that have gone remote due to cases among students and staff.

The message I sent to my school community here is that everyone needs to be aware that the actions they choose to take over the Thanksgiving break (and anytime, for that matter) can impact others. I am careful and am not too concerned about the virus for me. I also know that if I test positive, my whole school (we are a small school) goes remote, something no one wants. Therefore, I have modified my holiday plans.

We all need to make our own choices, but need to recognize that the choices we make potentially have consequences for others. These will be different for each of us. I don't think we need a "one size fits all" approach and hope that as we weigh our decisions we factor in how what we do could impact others.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I’d love to know which newspaper and the source of this information. To me that is a load of nonsense.

Yes there are more positives but mostly mild and asymptotic cases. Notice the hospitals are not being overcrowded like before and the recovery rate is over 99%. I’m sorry at those numbers no one it going to stop our family from getting together for thanksgiving and Christmas.

As I said they already previously scared us into not celebrating Easter and Palm Sunday this year we will do our best but at the same time live our lives. Life is too short no matter what not to celebrate our family.


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Your statement that hospitals are not being overcrowded is inaccurate. They’re seeing record numbers. There are multiple news articles about this.


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Your statement that hospitals are not being overcrowded is inaccurate. They’re seeing record numbers. There are multiple news articles about this.

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Absolutely, and healthcare workers are getting slammed. One state—North Dakota, I think—was letting Covid positive nurses continue to work because they were so shorthanded.

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[joey2665]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Your statement that hospitals are not being overcrowded is inaccurate. They’re seeing record numbers. There are multiple news articles about this.

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I’m sorry I disagree. There is no we’re near the overcrowding we had seen back in March and April. My information is direct form the many hospital workers that are friends and clients. There seems to be more control and less panic.

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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I’m sorry I disagree. There is no we’re near the overcrowding we had seen back in March and April. My information is direct form the many hospital workers that are friends and clients. There seems to be more control and less panic.

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Perhaps not for those people you know, but nationwide, hospitals are seeing record numbers. As for more control and less panic, I think it’s becoming routine for them, unfortunately.

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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I’m sorry I disagree. There is no we’re near the overcrowding we had seen back in March and April. My information is direct form the many hospital workers that are friends and clients. There seems to be more control and less panic.

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I agree there is more control and less panic, at least here in New England but these health care workers are working 24/7 to keep people alive. The least we can do is help the cause by following the advice of the CDC.
My daughter is an RN, sorry but I will take her advice on this subject over yours.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I agree there is more control and less panic, at least here in New England but these health care workers are working 24/7 to keep people alive. The least we can do is help the cause by following the advice of the CDC.
My daughter is an RN, sorry but I will take her advice on this subject over yours.

I never said not to take any advice or follow any precautions. People should be diligent and taking care of themselves and others but I think it’s important to remember everybody has different levels of diligence I’m comfortable seeing my family With 20 people others might not be but that our choice everybody has to make their own

[uglytunasaloona]

Personal hospital experience:

My blood pressure and heart rate went haywire last Sunday. My wife took me to LRGH. From what I could tell there were several other people in the emergency room but it did not look like there was any wait to get in. No one was in the waiting area.They told me they do not have any cardiologists on staff and would send me to Concord Hosptal (a very sad state of affairs). They had to test me for covid before they could send me and it came up negative (GREAT!). I was in a room by my self in Concord (not the ICU or CCU) and I wore a mask when not sleeping. No mask when they checked my vital signs in the middle of the night or during any of the myriad tests and procedures. From what I could tell when they were wheeling around me there was a number of empty rooms. I was there until Tuesday and took numerous trips for procedures. Are they overwhelmed? I can't state definitively. With increased positives. Who knows? Just one person's experience.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I never said not to take any advice or follow any precautions. People should be diligent and taking care of themselves and others but I think it’s important to remember everybody has different levels of diligence I’m comfortable seeing my family With 20 people others might not be but that our choice everybody has to make their own

I follow your logic and agree, to a point. I just sent out a note to the parents at my school. I did not tell people what they can and cannot do, but tried to make sure everyone understands that actions can have unintended consequences. If as a result of a Thanksgiving gathering a case of covid ends up in school, we have no choice but to go remote; we are very small and keeping all grades and staff apart is not possible. Right now we are one of the few area schools that is open full time; we want to keep it that way. One thing that seems odd to me is the spread is not occurring in schools, but is occurring in bars, restaurants, and gyms, Yet the focus is on closing schools and keeping other things open. Shouldn't we be closing the places where we know spread is occurring and allow schools to stay open? I don't have answers, just some Saturday thoughts.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I follow your logic and agree, to a point. I just sent out a note to the parents at my school. I did not tell people what they can and cannot do, but tried to make sure everyone understands that actions can have unintended consequences. If as a result of a Thanksgiving gathering a case of covid ends up in school, we have no choice but to go remote; we are very small and keeping all grades and staff apart is not possible. Right now we are one of the few area schools that is open full time; we want to keep it that way. One thing that seems odd to me is the spread is not occurring in schools, but is occurring in bars, restaurants, and gyms, Yet the focus is on closing schools and keeping other things open. Shouldn't we be closing the places where we know spread is occurring and allow schools to stay open? I don't have answers, just some Saturday thoughts.

Students are definitely spreading it through sports and activities, but it's impossible to tell if at school. My school said we'd stay hybrid unless there was proof in-school transmission. The problem is that it's impossible, given the timing/asymptomatic potential/incubation period, to know where the spread actually occurred.

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[Garcia]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Students are definitely spreading it through sports and activities, but it's impossible to tell if at school. My school said we'd stay hybrid unless there was proof in-school transmission. The problem is that it's impossible, given the timing/asymptomatic potential/incubation period, to know where the spread actually occurred.

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Sports and activities, absolutely. Many schools here are curtailing sports but sports outside of school are continuing.

[Mr. V]

The virus cannot be stopped until a vaccine is in place and we all take it.

Until then, the best that can be done is to try to keep it at bay.

The interim question, or course, is "Which is of higher priority: saving lives or saving the economy?"

[TheProfessor]

Catch 22.

Might not be any economy if lives are not saved.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TheProfessor

Catch 22.

Might not be any economy if lives are not saved.

Yes--and your Moultonborough restaurant closure thread is a great example of how this works--one asymptomatic(?) person goes out to dinner on Saturday, and two days latter the restaurant is shut for weeks and two waiters are infected.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

The virus cannot be stopped until a vaccine is in place and we all take it.

Until then, the best that can be done is to try to keep it at bay.

The interim question, or course, is "Which is of higher priority: saving lives or saving the economy?"

#1 for me would be saving lives, #2 would be saving the economy. But I'm sure there are just as many people, maybe more, that would vote the other way around.

[tis]

You really can't say that though. It's like the chicken and the egg. People will die from the virus or die because they can't work because of the virus. Despite what some progressive legislators think, the government can't pay everybody to stay home forever. And if the grocery stores aren't open because the workers are at home, I think most people would have a hard time finding food on their own. If truck drivers and essential workers stay home, how will we live? The society depends on people working beyond financial considerations.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by tis

You really can't say that though. It's like the chicken and the egg. People will die from the virus or die because they can't work because of the virus. Despite what some progressive legislators think, the government can't pay everybody to stay home forever. And if the grocery stores aren't open because the workers are at home, I think most people would have a hard time finding food on their own. If truck drivers and essential workers stay home, how will we live? The society depends on people working beyond financial considerations.

Spot on Tis. If I wanted to live in North Korea, I’d just move there. People need to face reality....sometimes bad things happen to good people.

[Jdarby]

Originally Posted by tis

You really can't say that though. It's like the chicken and the egg. People will die from the virus or die because they can't work because of the virus. Despite what some progressive legislators think, the government can't pay everybody to stay home forever. And if the grocery stores aren't open because the workers are at home, I think most people would have a hard time finding food on their own. If truck drivers and essential workers stay home, how will we live? The society depends on people working beyond financial considerations.

People won’t die just because they contracted the virus. Heck, many that contract the virus won’t die! There seems to be a sentiment that it’s all or nothing. You either are fine or you die. There is a significant population in the middle that requires intensive medical care and resources in order to survive. Those people eat up valuable resources during their care and there is then a cascade effect on the entire healthcare system when it becomes overwhelmed. There will then be unnecessary and otherwise preventable deaths due to heart attacks, strokes, and other normally treatable and survivable illness and injury. So this isn’t just about people dying from COVID...it’s about people dying because of a healthcare system that is at or beyond capacity. Yes, I’ve read the anecdotal reports of people who sought care at the local hospitals and everything seemed normal. I’ve even spoken to a few healthcare workers from local facilities and heard positive stories. But all healthcare facilities are not created equal nor have all the necessary services for the critically ill. So some of these facilities are not the best litmus test. They can have 50 open beds but if they don’t have invasive cardiology services, good luck surviving your heart attack. Forget the transfer to a hospital that can actually treat you as they are at capacity due to COVID patients....it quickly becomes a slippery slope. Be well.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by tis

You really can't say that though. It's like the chicken and the egg. People will die from the virus or die because they can't work because of the virus. Despite what some progressive legislators think, the government can't pay everybody to stay home forever. And if the grocery stores aren't open because the workers are at home, I think most people would have a hard time finding food on their own. If truck drivers and essential workers stay home, how will we live? The society depends on people working beyond financial considerations.

You kind of miss the point--staying home and social distancing does not need to be 100%. If everybody just cuts back, transmissions will fall. Grocery stores, trucks, etc, should all roll. But you might want to get your haircut less often, and skip the bars and rock concerts

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You kind of miss the point--staying home and social distancing does not need to be 100%. If everybody just cuts back, transmissions will fall. Grocery stores, trucks, etc, should all roll. But you might want to get your haircut less often, and skip the bars and rock concerts

You should tell that to the hundreds of out of staters that were climbing Mt. Major on Saturday.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

You should tell that to the hundreds of out of staters that were climbing Mt. Major on Saturday.

The upsetting hypocrisy is that most of those people came from a state with higher Covid numbers that has banned NH visitors.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

You should tell that to the hundreds of out of staters that were climbing Mt. Major on Saturday.

Yes, this is a good point, and I would tell it to in-staters as well. One thing that too many people on both sides of the political spectrum have in common is the willingness to forget about the numbers when it suits them. "I have to protest for an important cause" is not much different than "Nobody's going to tell me to stay away from that bike rally", or "But Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday".

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by tis

You really can't say that though. It's like the chicken and the egg. People will die from the virus or die because they can't work because of the virus. Despite what some progressive legislators think, the government can't pay everybody to stay home forever. And if the grocery stores aren't open because the workers are at home, I think most people would have a hard time finding food on their own. If truck drivers and essential workers stay home, how will we live? The society depends on people working beyond financial considerations.

But it’s not one or the other. It’s a middle ground where people go out for essentials, and hopefully plan well enough so those trips are infrequent, and then stay home or in relatively isolated situations until things settle down. Progressives aren’t asking for everyone to be paid while they stay at home. They’re realistic that some people in the workforce aren’t essential but can’t work from home, so they need a safety net until this blows over. Why are you trying to make this black or white, when life is never like that, Covid or not?

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[ApS]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

The virus cannot be stopped until a vaccine is in place and we all take it. Until then, the best that can be done is to try to keep it at bay. The interim question, or course, is "Which is of higher priority: saving lives or saving the economy?"

Vaccine is to get to health workers in a few weeks...

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/ar...eerepublic.com

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

The virus cannot be stopped until a vaccine is in place and we all take it.

Until then, the best that can be done is to try to keep it at bay.

The interim question, or course, is "Which is of higher priority: saving lives or saving the economy?"

That's not quite true. It would eventually burn itself out. As did pandemics in past history. But the death toll would be very high and it could take 5, 10 years.