open carry - Market Basket, Plymouth NH

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

As my wife would say...I wonder what he's compensating for?

This thread will not end well.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by DEJ

This thread will not end well.

You never know, sometimes a good conversation can stay civil. I don't think this thread will end SOON, but I do hold out hope that it ends WELL.

[swnoel]

You either support the Second Amendment or you don't...

[LikeLakes]

I do. Just because I wonder why people want to open carry at grocery stores doesn't mean I don't support the right to, within the law, bear arms.

I wonder why people like powdered donuts. But I support their right to have 3 or 4 with their coffee with 8 creams and 12 sugars.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by swnoel

You either support the Second Amendment or you don't...

The Second Amendment as being discussed here and most other places is due largely to the 2008 case District of Columbia vs. Heller. Prior to that, the interpretation was not about an individuals right to bear arms the way it gets discussed today.

Many support the Second Amendment but do not interpret it to mean individuals have a constitutional right to carry anything, anywhere.

Do I want to see guns in the grocery store, on boaters out enjoying the day, or on people sitting next to me when I am out for ice cream with my kids? No. Do I live in fear of being shot by a crazed lunatic or a good samaritan trying to stop one? No. If I have to make a choice, I would rather see the guns people are carrying than have people with concealed weapons.

[~Haze~]

Originally Posted by swnoel

You either support the Second Amendment or you don't...

That’s not accurate.

There are a number of reasonable people who are completely comfortable with guns in reasonable moderation but some of the arbitrary lines drawn by the organizations, institutions and powers that be might need some readjusting based on logic rather than precedent.

Many of us have guns and do carry without our entire existence, identity, and brain to be consumed by the second amendment.
Granted many gun owners do tend to be “1 issue voters” but not all of us.

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Ones comment on “compensating for something”. I ask you to grow up.

Because no one would ever think that way - seriously or in jest.

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Ha- its the little one! See you this summer, I hope D!!

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[~Haze~]

Originally Posted by DEJ

This thread will not end well.

For who?


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[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by DEJ

This thread will not end well.

Actually, not too badly and mostly pretty well. If we end it soon.

[baygo]

Some people may find concern in the company of a stranger with open carry in a store and some people may find concern that the black man in front of them in line is about to hold up the store. What do they have in common?

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by baygo

Some people may find concern in the company of a stranger with open carry in a store and some people may find concern that the black man in front of them in line is about to hold up the store. What do they have in common?

Best comment so far.

[John Mercier]

Except skin color is a protected class.
If I lose customers or employees because someone with a skin color they don't like is shopping in my store... not really much I can do about that.

But for a non-restricted class... that becomes a different story.
We currently can't afford to lose any employees, and can lose a certain percentage of customers and still have too many.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by baygo

Some people may find concern in the company of a stranger with open carry in a store and some people may find concern that the black man in front of them in line is about to hold up the store. What do they have in common?

You seem to equate going into a store while Black with going into a store while carrying a gun openly. Even if we overlook the racial overtones, one of these people is making a choice/statement, the other is just going to the store

[baygo]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You seem to equate going into a store while Black with going into a store while carrying a gun openly. Even if we overlook the racial overtones, one of these people is making a choice/statement, the other is just going to the store

No racial overtones involved. My statement/question brings to light the perceived unjust fears in both scenarios. And perhaps it sheads light on hypocrisy.

[John Mercier]

The unjust fears are only a matter of the revenue equation to the person(s) that make the policy decisions.

I can not restrict someone for their skin tone regardless of any negative effect it may have on my customer base... it is a protected class.

While you may not be happy with the unjust fear of the customers, someone carrying a firearm is not a protected class. It is a choice that they are making.
So the policy is enacted by the business owner to protect their revenue, as any lost customer base due to the act is harm to the business owner.
It doesn't matter what the ''emotional'' equation is.

If customer avoided a business because too many Mercedes were parked out front, and the owner felt that was a detriment to their revenue equation, they could enact policy that no Mercedes were to be on their property.

The Mercedes owner may not like it, but they could either choose not to bring the Mercedes, or to shop another business. Mercedes owners are not a protected class.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The unjust fears are only a matter of the revenue equation to the person(s) that make the policy decisions.

I can not restrict someone for their skin tone regardless of any negative effect it may have on my customer base... it is a protected class.

While you may not be happy with the unjust fear of the customers, someone carrying a firearm is not a protected class. It is a choice that they are making.
So the policy is enacted by the business owner to protect their revenue, as any lost customer base due to the act is harm to the business owner.
It doesn't matter what the ''emotional'' equation is.

If customer avoided a business because too many Mercedes were parked out front, and the owner felt that was a detriment to their revenue equation, they could enact policy that no Mercedes were to be on their property.

The Mercedes owner may not like it, but they could either choose not to bring the Mercedes, or to shop another business. Mercedes owners are not a protected class.

So in the end your only goal is to maximize profit? With the singular exception of wishing not to violate the letter of law, you have no other considerations for the operation of your business or how you treat the world?

Its a classic perspective, and I give you credit for being honest. Too often people say one thing and do another. I think its always better to know who you are dealing with. So I do appreciate your truth to your perspective and owning it.

That said, clearly you have not read or didnt buy into Lutz Laws of Business. Might be worth a look, the one about "the Primary Purpose of Business Is Not to Make Money" is of particular interest and especially when considered in todays time period and with an eye for bigger picture.

I suppose this is just another example of the rift that divides America.

It interesting to also note that some people have no concern that the law protects people of color (and other groups), they simply treat these people like anyone else regardless of the impact to the business, as they believe its just the right thing to do, not because the law requires it. The same holds true of open carry, or allowing children in your place of business, or people with outlandish clothing. Treat everyone the same because its just the right thing to do, not because you might violate a law by treating them differently.

Positive change takes time, and so it will be with acceptance that citizens are again embracing the notion of protecting themselves, so it will take time to become normalized.

Hopefully we will be able to have non-violent engagements and discussion about this, unlike so many other matters that become so hostile and personal and unproductive.

In the end the notion of imposing personal preference with restrictions is a longstanding method of controlling people, so it makes sense thats the first thing people propose. Looking back to all the things we have exiled, beaten, stoned and killed each other over (such as; how you dress, what you believe, how you talk ETC Etc etc) we should not be surprised at the response to open carry, its just disappointing that in 2021 we cant do better to accept something that in and of itself caused no harm or risk to anyone (open carry in Market Basket).

We must remember that as a country we are the still children of pilgrims and puritans who dictated almost every facet of life, so like all progress in the past, this too will take time to evolve.

[John Mercier]

Since no two people are alike... treating everyone the same makes no sense.

I have customers that set an appointment, I have customers that simply walk in and demand service.

I have customers concerned with the quality and options of a product, and customers just looking for the thing that can be attained the faster or the cheapest.

I have customers that just left a Big Box with off the shelve pricing, looking for a special order quote to match that product, and want is at a discount. When I tell them that it can not be matched... they will not take my word for it and demand a computerized quote - that takes time for a sale that will never happen. Time that cannot be allocated to another customer waiting for something that they will purchase.

I have customers that demand to know what their contractor paid for product, because they do not trust the contractor they hired.

Believe me, if people spent just a few more minutes thinking about those other customers... then it would be easier to treat everyone the same.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Since no two people are alike... treating everyone the same makes no sense.

I have customers that set an appointment, I have customers that simply walk in and demand service.

I have customers concerned with the quality and options of a product, and customers just looking for the thing that can be attained the faster or the cheapest.

I have customers that just left a Big Box with off the shelve pricing, looking for a special order quote to match that product, and want is at a discount. When I tell them that it can not be matched... they will not take my word for it and demand a computerized quote - that takes time for a sale that will never happen. Time that cannot be allocated to another customer waiting for something that they will purchase.

I have customers that demand to know what their contractor paid for product, because they do not trust the contractor they hired.

Believe me, if people spent just a few more minutes thinking about those other customers... then it would be easier to treat everyone the same.

Again an interesting perspective.

I don't know what your business is, and I guess it really doesn't matter, but its clear you are passionate about making your business successful, and ultimately succeed or fail, you are the one who must live with the outcome of your decisions.

If you succeed and in any part because you banned Mercedes from parking at your business because some of your customers demanded it, and you can live with the compromise (and maybe even agree with it) all I can say is congratulations.

If you succeed in spite of your not bowing down to some customers unreasonable demands I applaud you.

Yours is but one business and one perspective and one example. Thankfully there are many others and many who would not ban Mercedes parking on their lot, or people of color (even before it was the law) or imposing other seeming irrational restrictions. But in truth yours is the more common practice, thats why positive change takes so long. Thankfully there are people with perspectives bigger than the bottom line profit of any given day and they make more balanced decisions. And thats where I will continue to take my business, and I will attempt to continue to avoid the elitist people and businesses among us who would impose arbitrary restrictions.

ATB

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Again an interesting perspective.

I don't know what your business is, and I guess it really doesn't matter, but its clear you are passionate about making your business successful, and ultimately succeed or fail, you are the one who must live with the outcome of your decisions.

If you succeed and in any part because you banned Mercedes from parking at your business because some of your customers demanded it, and you can live with the compromise (and maybe even agree with it) all I can say is congratulations.

If you succeed in spite of your not bowing down to some customers unreasonable demands I applaud you.

Yours is but one business and one perspective and one example. Thankfully there are many others and many who would not ban Mercedes parking on their lot, or people of color (even before it was the law) or imposing other seeming irrational restrictions. But in truth yours is the more common practice, thats why positive change takes so long. Thankfully there are people with perspectives bigger than the bottom line profit of any given day and they make more balanced decisions. And thats where I will continue to take my business, and I will attempt to continue to avoid the elitist people and businesses among us who would impose arbitrary restrictions.

ATB

The point of those policies would be to make you go to another business. If you come to our business, and we get you as a customer, but lose other customers... no gain. If we lose employees... a definite loss.

So when I go to my dentist, I make an appointment... the door states to wear a mask, and sanitize my hands before a temp check. I do as directed.
When I go to the dealer for service on my vehicle, I make an appointment, the door ''heavily suggests'' that I wear a mask, so I put the mask on and after waiting patiently for the service desk manager to take my keys, I go outside and remove my mask. When the vehicle is ready, mask goes back on... I make the payment... and when I get back outside I take the mask off.

Business makes a request... regardless of my personal thoughts... I do as requested, or I find someplace else to shop.

If I have to pay a higher price or get a lesser degree of service, that would be the trade off for not being willing to do as the business requests.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The point of those policies would be to make you go to another business. If you come to our business, and we get you as a customer, but lose other customers... no gain. If we lose employees... a definite loss.

So when I go to my dentist, I make an appointment... the door states to wear a mask, and sanitize my hands before a temp check. I do as directed.

When I go to the dealer for service on my vehicle, I make an appointment, the door ''heavily suggests'' that I wear a mask, so I put the mask on and after waiting patiently for the service desk manager to take my keys, I go outside and remove my mask. When the vehicle is ready, mask goes back on... I make the payment... and when I get back outside I take the mask off.

Business makes a request... regardless of my personal thoughts... I do as requested, or I find someplace else to shop.

If I have to pay a higher price or get a lesser degree of service, that would be the trade off for not being willing to do as the business requests.

Same mask experience this week. Needed new eyeglasses and went to Laconia Eye and the sign on door reads “masks are required”. Drove to another store and made my purchase. Personal chose


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[Newbiesaukee]

Although I agree that most decisions are absolutely the right of individuals to make for themselves. And I am not criticizing the rights of people to make those decisions.

Yet, it seems a sad state of affairs when some decisions, such as those regarding personal medical care, seem to be increasingly driven by politics rather than competence.

[fatlazyless]

So ....... did you go to the optician at the nearby Gilford Walmart where they do not allow open carry of a hand gun inside their store because it tends to scare and intimidate the other customers?

http://www.optix-now.com/ecp/gilford...ion-center-840

THANK-YOU to each and every WALMART, about 4500-stores, in the U.S. in all 50-states that all have this NO OPEN CARRY policy since 2019.

If you were seated in the optician getting measured for new eyeglasses, and another patient/customer walked in and sat down who was wearing a hand gun, open carry, how would that make you feel? For me I would get up and leave, asap-pdq, absolutely positively, I would exit the optician office, immediately!