DES permits for a deck???

[jazzman]

Does anyone know how hard (is it even possible?), to get a DES permit to extend a deck into the 50 foot buffer?

My house currently has a 4 foot deep deck across the front which is next to useless because it's only wide enough to walk on. The deck is pretty close to the 50 foot mark. It would be 10x more useful if it was 8 feet deep. Is this sort of permitting DIY, or do I need to hire a professional and turn this into a very expensive project.

FWIW, it's a wooden deck about 2 feet off the ground with 1/4" spacing between deck boards, so runoff isn't a huge issue and the yard facing the lake is dead flat with a natural berm to the lake formed by 10,000 years of ice pushing rocks into the shoreline

[Biggd]

I know one of my neighbors attempted this to no avail. She was only allowed to extend the deck an extra 21". So she went with that, better than nothing.

[TheTimeTraveler]

There is another way to get to the piece of cheese; Don't build a deck but do landscaping instead.

Build a nice stonewall, fill it in with sand or gravel, smooth it out and use pavers or flagstone as your substitute deck surface.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

There is another way to get to the piece of cheese; Don't build a deck but do landscaping instead.

Build a nice stonewall, fill it in with sand or gravel, smooth it out and use pavers or flagstone as your substitute deck surface.

Any work in that buffer zone would require a permit.

[FlyingScot]

It's very hard to imagine getting approval for anything inside of 50'. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure that the only reason your current structure is allowed inside of 100' is that it's grandfathered. (so it could be worse)

[Heaven]

Originally Posted by jazzman

Does anyone know how hard (is it even possible?), to get a DES permit to extend a deck into the 50 foot buffer?

My house currently has a 4 foot deep deck across the front which is next to useless because it's only wide enough to walk on. The deck is pretty close to the 50 foot mark. It would be 10x more useful if it was 8 feet deep. Is this sort of permitting DIY, or do I need to hire a professional and turn this into a very expensive project.

FWIW, it's a wooden deck about 2 feet off the ground with 1/4" spacing between deck boards, so runoff isn't a huge issue and the yard facing the lake is dead flat with a natural berm to the lake formed by 10,000 years of ice pushing rocks into the shoreline

I believe they would rather see you extend the deck, which is still permeable, than build a nonpermeable patio, perhaps

https://www.des.nh.gov/protected-shoreland-faq#faq30916
Projects involving changes in the dimension of an attached deck require a shoreland impact permit or permit by notification. New decks may be added to nonconforming primary structures and existing decks may be expanded, provided they extend no more than 12 feet towards the reference line from the surface of the primary structure to which they are attached.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Heaven

I believe they would rather see you extend the deck, which is still permeable, than build a nonpermeable patio, perhaps

https://www.des.nh.gov/protected-shoreland-faq#faq30916
Projects involving changes in the dimension of an attached deck require a shoreland impact permit or permit by notification. New decks may be added to nonconforming primary structures and existing decks may be expanded, provided they extend no more than 12 feet towards the reference line from the surface of the primary structure to which they are attached.

I followed your very helpful link. It says no decks unless they are "designed to absorb or infiltrate water". Maybe another reader knows how to design a deck that will absorb or infiltrate...

[John Mercier]

RainEscape
It would need to be plumbed back into drywell or sewer.

[tis]

Call your local code officer and ask. Our code officer told us we could put something like pavers but not wood into the 50' buffer.

[John Mercier]

Local code enforcer?
I would call DES... since they will issue the permit and any punishment for not following through.

[codeman671]

It can be done. You are allowed a certain percentage of impact within the 50' setback. You would need to prepare a shoreland plan with DES, then go to the town for a variance. It is a lot of work.

FWIW, to add 4' to the front I'd consider just doing it.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by codeman671

It can be done. You are allowed a certain percentage of impact within the 50' setback. You would need to prepare a shoreland plan with DES, then go to the town for a variance. It is a lot of work.

FWIW, to add 4' to the front I'd consider just doing it.

Adding anything to the outside of your home in this day and age is risky business without a permit.
I'm sure they can access any shoreline through Google Earth and see if there are any additions that were not performed with a permit, although I would think someone would have to bring it to their attention.
I'm building a new deck on the back of my house and I'm extending it out 5 more feet. I was just going to do it without a permit but I decided against it. It's not worth the risk, applied for a permit Thursday, $30.

[jazzman]

Really, I'd think a deck was a good thing. It takes all that water running off the roof and allows it to be dispersed slowly over a greater area of land. Nobody builds "impervious" decks.

I assume there is a lot of wiggle room for contractors who know what they're doing. I'm seeing breakwater extensions, wooden walkways/docks horizontal to the shoreline, good sized decks in the 50 foot buffer. All being done by big name local area contractors.

[tis]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Local code enforcer?
I would call DES... since they will issue the permit and any punishment for not following through.

I don't know where you live, but here the local code officer knows the state rules as well as the town rules. And it's a lot easier to get an answer from them than it is the state.

[Onshore]

If the enclosed living space of the residence is located behind the 50 foot primary building setback then any attached deck is prohibited from extending across the 50 foot setback. Timetraveler's suggestion of using a detached patio is legal (with a Shoreland permit) and commonly used. Granted it doesn't help if you have a second floor slider to nowhere...

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by tis

I don't know where you live, but here the local code officer knows the state rules as well as the town rules. And it's a lot easier to get an answer from them than it is the state.

Belmont.
But my uncle was the code officer for Moultonborough.
The code is always in debate. Better to go to the people that will be enforcing the requirement and bypass any debate.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by jazzman

Really, I'd think a deck was a good thing. It takes all that water running off the roof and allows it to be dispersed slowly over a greater area of land. Nobody builds "impervious" decks.

I assume there is a lot of wiggle room for contractors who know what they're doing. I'm seeing breakwater extensions, wooden walkways/docks horizontal to the shoreline, good sized decks in the 50 foot buffer. All being done by big name local area contractors.

Yes. I get many requests for a system that keeps the space below a deck dry... just not many willing to pay the price.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Adding anything to the outside of your home in this day and age is risky business without a permit.
I'm sure they can access any shoreline through Google Earth and see if there are any additions that were not performed with a permit, although I would think someone would have to bring it to their attention.
I'm building a new deck on the back of my house and I'm extending it out 5 more feet. I was just going to do it without a permit but I decided against it. It's not worth the risk, applied for a permit Thursday, $30.

The last time they tax accessed my property it was only exterior measurements, and they did it with an overflight. I expect with drones becoming more common, those overflights will get even cheaper.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The last time they tax accessed my property it was only exterior measurements, and they did it with an overflight. I expect with drones becoming more common, those overflights will get even cheaper.

I had my roof done by a contractor back in Mass a few years ago as everyone I called locally told me they were 6 months out.
This Mass contractor gave me an estimate with a measurement of my roof from from Google earth. He had the materials delivered and a crew of 10 showed up and did it in a day, and they were a lot cheaper than all the local roof contractors.

[Heaven]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I followed your very helpful link. It says no decks unless they are "designed to absorb or infiltrate water". Maybe another reader knows how to design a deck that will absorb or infiltrate...

Ok, I see what you read. . . I believe a "permeable" deck does "infiltrate" water. They want you to have spaces between the decking for water to slowly infiltrate through the deck. They DO NOT want you to have a "waterproof" deck or anything under the deck that keeps the water from flowing to the ground.

[John Mercier]

Best to ask when seeking the permit.
Permeable might also mean steel grate decking or FlowThru.

[BroadHopper]

A customer would like to add a deck to undeveloped property. Fortunately, the owner had a great site developer. He recommends adding a porous paver deck to the landscape and that works! DES and town would not allow a wood deck nor a paved deck. They were ok with porous pavers.

Another customer bought the property with an existing deck but no slip. Because of the lot size, he was not allowed a slip but was allowed a mooring ball. He has it set up so that the boat is tied to the deck and roped to the mooring ball. A neighbor complained and it was investigated. It was okay.

Both properties are in Tuftonboro.

[John Mercier]

They would still need the DES permit, and would have basically two options.

Rip the deck off the house and build a retaining wall for the two foot height of the patio, fill the retaining wall keeping proper drainage next to the houses foundation, and then add the cost of the pavers on top. If they left that grass, really wouldn't be any difference then going down on the existing flat lawn.

Leave the deck, build steps down, and place the patio on the flat lawn. Still requiring the permit.

The four foot ''landing'' exists most likely because either a sliding or swinging door exists on that side. They don't state that, but usually that is the case.