Gilford to have meeting on Short Term Rentals Monday

[tis]

In regard to the Conway lawsuit, the judge had ruled in favor of the rental owners.
STRs are not a violation of the Conway zoning.

[John Mercier]

Zoning is fluid. The wording that exists today can be amended.

Each municipality is going to have to decide the fate of its commercial motel/hotel/B&B operations.

Laconia, for the most part, has already taken the hit... most of them in the Weirs section are gone. I think they only have the Naswa and Margate?

Meredith and Gilford are the ones that have to make the big decision.
It is why I think that Rusty was lucky to sell Church Landing, and shouldn't invest in the Gunstock project. Church Landing is taxes to Meredith, and the Gunstock project is taxes to Gilford; but I don't see the ROI for the investors that is worth the risk.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Laconia, for the most part, has already taken the hit... most of them in the Weirs section are gone. I think they only have the Naswa and Margate?.

And:

The Lazy E

Channel Cottages

The Half Moon

Lake Winnipesaukee Motel

Sun Valley Cottages

The Summit

Weirs Beach Motel and Cottages

[John Mercier]

Thanks for the correction... it was sort of why I had the question mark.

I know we have some big jobs for the Weirs section, and I think that they may have the option of STR for them. They seem very modern functional; which is different than the designs that I get requested to do for most primary home owners.

[birchhaven]

The motels in the weirs went condo because of the amount of money the former motel owner can make selling them as Condos, it had nothing to do with people buying them to rent them as airbnb. Surely that's not what you are saying.

[TiltonBB]

The State Senate had a hearing on January 25th on the bill regarding short term rentals submitted by Senator Harold French. At the hearing, Senator French offered amendments to the bill.

Senator French has done some good things and is very responsive to input from Citizens. He seems to be a real "common sense" guy.

I asked him to submit legislation a couple of years ago and he was receptive and interested. He made some suggestions about the language, attended the hearings and testified for the bill, and the bill was passed.

Back to the subject at hand: The short term rental bill amendment would allow communities to adopt ordinances to have an inspection of the premises to ensure it meets minimum housing standards.

From The Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...98503b1ba.html

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by birchhaven

The motels in the weirs went condo because of the amount of money the former motel owner can make selling them as Condos, it had nothing to do with people buying them to rent them as airbnb. Surely that's not what you are saying.

People don't move from an STR like a motel, to go back to an STR in most cases.
Motels close for various reasons... retirement of the owners and no one willing to take over the business, etc. But competition plays a role, at a certain point an STR regardless of type may not be able to compete with another STR regardless of type... the market moves. Changing a property to another format is always an option; but that would be because the motel wasn't as profitable against the competition which held the profits down.

If someone would have told me three years ago that black/black windows would be the hot item in my line of work - I would laughed so hard I would need a doctor. Currently, it is rare that the customer is not looking for black/black windows. The companies that do black/black well... with the right price point... they are doing very well. Three years from now what will be the demand... I have no idea... but the same can be stated for STR, condos, or really any market segment.

As the market moves, the companies that do it best survive and prosper, those that don't... tend to die a death one way or the other.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by birchhaven

The motels in the weirs went condo because of the amount of money the former motel owner can make selling them as Condos, it had nothing to do with people buying them to rent them as airbnb. Surely that's not what you are saying.

Disagree. I bought a motel to condo conversion in 1980 specifically for STR. Many of the other buyers at the time did the same. Yes, the owners wanted to retire and move, and, as with many other Weirs motels, to continue running it as a "modern" motel would have cost a lot more than they, or a business buyer, could make back in a few years. Some of my first tenants were people who had rented from the motel in the past. They looked around and decided that motels weren't going to be around for long and bought conversions as well. Used it for a few weeks and rent the rest of the time. The catch was, Gunstock had no snowmaking then and also that year, no natural snow. Nobody wanted to rent winter short term. In a couple of years, the price doubled, so I sold it. Prices have continued to climb and I believe many of those units are STR because people have mortgages and much higher taxes.

[John Mercier]

Cherry Valley?
I know Cedar Lodge went condo so the owners could recapture capital, and it is still STR... but I didn't know there were others. I thought most went timeshare.

[birchhaven]

Originally Posted by Descant

Disagree. I bought a motel to condo conversion in 1980 specifically for STR. Many of the other buyers at the time did the same. Yes, the owners wanted to retire and move, and, as with many other Weirs motels, to continue running it as a "modern" motel would have cost a lot more than they, or a business buyer, could make back in a few years. Some of my first tenants were people who had rented from the motel in the past. They looked around and decided that motels weren't going to be around for long and bought conversions as well. Used it for a few weeks and rent the rest of the time. The catch was, Gunstock had no snowmaking then and also that year, no natural snow. Nobody wanted to rent winter short term. In a couple of years, the price doubled, so I sold it. Prices have continued to climb and I believe many of those units are STR because people have mortgages and much higher taxes.

I don't doubt your situation, however, it has been talked about on here at length about how the motels of the weirs going condo negatively impacted area businesses because of the lower utilization rates of condo owners vs motel renters. Now that Short term rentals are being discussed in a negative way, you are suggesting and twisting it in way that people sold their motels as condos so people could rerent them on VRBO. And that somehow the VRBO rental in a former motel is somehow worse since gunstock now makes snow. That is downright comical and just shows the internet never fails that someone can twist anything to serve their opinion.

[codeman671]

A judge just denied the attempt in North Conway to ban short-term rentals that are not owner-occupied. Just came across WMUR.

[tis]

Originally Posted by codeman671

A judge just denied the attempt in North Conway to ban short-term rentals that are not owner-occupied. Just came across WMUR.

Hi Codeman. I posted that already, (post 69). WMUR must be a little behind.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by birchhaven

I don't doubt your situation, however, it has been talked about on here at length about how the motels of the weirs going condo negatively impacted area businesses because of the lower utilization rates of condo owners vs motel renters. Now that Short term rentals are being discussed in a negative way, you are suggesting and twisting it in way that people sold their motels as condos so people could rerent them on VRBO. And that somehow the VRBO rental in a former motel is somehow worse since gunstock now makes snow. That is downright comical and just shows the internet never fails that someone can twist anything to serve their opinion.

I would state that some surmised that the motels going condo hurt local business more from the fact that the condos generally provide a means to prepare a meal without dining out. It really does not seem to be the situation. Some restaurants have struggled and closed, while others seem to thrive through the changes.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I would state that some surmised that the motels going condo hurt local business more from the fact that the condos generally provide a means to prepare a meal without dining out. It really does not seem to be the situation. Some restaurants have struggled and closed, while others seem to thrive through the changes.

Interesting point. Maybe the kitchens in the condos are balanced out by the people in the condos having more disposable income?

[Descant]

Yes, many of the small family businesses from post war are gone because those folks wanted to retire just like motel owners. But look what the condos are supporting at McIntire Circle: A super Wal Mart and two other huge supermarkets, Lowe's, and countless other businesses. I don't believe a population of less than 8,000 supports all that business. Yes, some come from Laconia where the STR issue is similar.

[John Mercier]

People that rent short term rather than long term do not eat more food.
That area had a Gerrity Lumber, Star Market and K Mart for decades.

I would doubt the people in the condos have more disposable income than the ones in the motels; but its always plausible. I think on a ''per head'' basis, the condo rental may be cheaper than the motel... or provide more amenities like the kitchen that can offset a higher cost. The market has so many variables, it is hard to determine.

[Descant]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

People that rent short term rather than long term do not eat more food.
That area had a Gerrity Lumber, Star Market and K Mart for decades.

I would doubt the people in the condos have more disposable income than the ones in the motels; but its always plausible. I think on a ''per head'' basis, the condo rental may be cheaper than the motel... or provide more amenities like the kitchen that can offset a higher cost. The market has so many variables, it is hard to determine.

I remember Grossman's, not Gerrity. Did one replace the other? My speculation is that condo owners and those who rent them, are more apt to rent/stay for a week whereas motels of the day were more apt to have folks stay for a weekend. When I worked at a local restaurant as a teenager, the weekend traffic was significantly greater than mid-week.

[tis]

Gerrity was where Middleton is now in Meredith. Grossman's was near where Lowe's is now.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by tis

Gerrity was where Middleton is now in Meredith. Grossman's was near where Lowe's is now.

Sorry, that would be correct... Grossman's.
The lot is actually to the side and outback... last I knew Home Depot had purchased it... but that was over seven years ago.

My point that a much smaller resident population still supported these types of businesses. If I remember correctly Hannaford was Big Banana and the Globe next to it, and I still do not know what became of the old Mart, because I don't travel that way often.

[LoveLakeLife]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Sorry, that would be correct... Grossman's.

The lot is actually to the side and outback... last I knew Home Depot had purchased it... but that was over seven years ago.

My point that a much smaller resident population still supported these types of businesses. If I remember correctly Hannaford was Big Banana and the Globe next to it, and I still do not know what became of the old Mart, because I don't travel that way often.

I think the Big Banana was where Shaws is now.


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[John Mercier]

That may be a Shaw's at the circle... like I said, I really don't travel down that way anymore than I have to.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Sorry, that would be correct... Grossman's.
The lot is actually to the side and outback... last I knew Home Depot had purchased it... but that was over seven years ago.

My point that a much smaller resident population still supported these types of businesses. If I remember correctly Hannaford was Big Banana and the Globe next to it, and I still do not know what became of the old Mart, because I don't travel that way often.

Grossman's was near Gilford Lowes, probably more correct to say behind the CVS right at "McIntyre Circle" traffic lights. Well after Grossman's closed, I thought Irwin's was using it for off-site boat storage. Dad loved Grossman's. He patronized them up here and down in MA.
The Big Banana I don't remember, but there was a restaurant called the Roadkill Cafe. Pretty good food and very colorful names for the food, as you can well imagine. It was located right where Shaw's is today.

Dave

[tis]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Grossman's was near Gilford Lowes, probably more correct to say behind the CVS right at "McIntyre Circle" traffic lights. Well after Grossman's closed, I thought Irwin's was using it for off-site boat storage. Dad loved Grossman's. He patronized them up here and down in MA.
The Big Banana I don't remember, but there was a restaurant called the Roadkill Cafe. Pretty good food and very colorful names for the food, as you can well imagine. It was located right where Shaw's is today.

Dave

That's where the Big Banana was too up. Leigh Turner ran the Roadkill do you remember him from school?

[Weekend Pundit]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

The Big Banana I don't remember, but there was a restaurant called the Roadkill Cafe. Pretty good food and very colorful names for the food, as you can well imagine. It was located right where Shaw's is today.

Dave

Actually the Roadkill Cafe was located where the Gilford Mobil Mart is today. (I used to work at their Bartlett restaurant and knew the manager of the Gilford Roadkill as she had worked at the Bartlett Roadkill Cafe.)

[Weekend Pundit]

The Gilford Planning Board is still plugging away at a zoning ordinance for STRs. At the public hearing earlier this year the Planning Board got a lot of great input from the public and it realized it needed to do more work.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that the proposed Gilford STR ordinance differentiates between owner-occupied STRs and 'commercial' STRs. The requirements are different.

One thing that has been mentioned is the town's inability to clamp down on existing 'distributed hotels'. The Working Stiffs v Portsmouth NH Supreme Court decision declared commercial STRs are hotels. That means Gilford could require all of the commercial STRs in residential zones would need to go before the Gilford ZBA for a variance since hotels are not allowed in residential zones under Gilford Zoning ordinances. However, town counsel has suggested using other means since using the ZBA could tie up the town in court for years.

At Town Meeting voting Gilford voters approved a change in the town's Noise Ordinance which removed some exemptions which makes it easier for the PD to quiet things down. There was an exemption for 'unamplified human voices'. But those 'unamplified human voices' can be really loud, particularly after midnight. I speak from experience, having had to deal with a 'party house' at my previous home in Gunstock Acres. The police could ask them to quiet down, but couldn't do anything if they didn't. Now they can. This will help the town address one of the biggest issues brought up by residents dealing with STRs: Noise.

The town is also working on updating parking ordinances to limit on-street parking as an adjunct to the STR zoning ordinance which also has some parking requirements, particularly involving overnight parking.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Descant

I remember Grossman's, not Gerrity. Did one replace the other? My speculation is that condo owners and those who rent them, are more apt to rent/stay for a week whereas motels of the day were more apt to have folks stay for a weekend. When I worked at a local restaurant as a teenager, the weekend traffic was significantly greater than mid-week.

I would surmise the same that both are STR, but a condo rental is... or at least was... longer - more like the two week time share options that existed.
But if the motel room turns over and has the same occupancy... it really should be the motel patrons that would have a greater amount of money to unload in a shorter period. If I am only a day or two in an area... the process of grocery shopping and preparing a meal is rather bothersome than just dining out for all three meals.