Seaplane Base and runway 19 Mile Bay Proposed

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

I wonder if 19 Mile Bay is actually a smokescreen? Maybe the Town will tell him to pay for and build a dock at 20 Mile Bay instead. This way no one can complain about altering or using the existing dock.

Plenty of parking available on the north bound side of Route 109.

I wonder if this could be the perfect solution?

Same issue--just different people involved. 20 Mile Bay is a public beach. Giving away a public beach to a business is no different than giving away dock space.

[Seaplane Pilot]

New seaplane service just announced between Boston and New York. No problem with seaplanes in either of these locations, but of course 19 Mike Bay in Tuftonboro, NH is a lot busier than Boston Harbor and New York’s East River….

https://onemileatatime.com/news/tail...ts-boston-nyc/

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

New seaplane service just announced between Boston and New York. No problem with seaplanes in either of these locations, but of course 19 Mike Bay in Tuftonboro, NH is a lot busier than Boston Harbor and New York’s East River….

https://onemileatatime.com/news/tail...ts-boston-nyc/

You are correct--19 Mile Bay is a lot busier than either--on the weekend there are many more boats and people per acre of water surface. If you doubt this, take a flight to visit all three this Saturday, and let us know which location is easiest to find open water for your landing

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You are correct--19 Mile Bay is a lot busier than either--on the weekend there are many more boats and people per acre of water surface. If you doubt this, take a flight to visit all three this Saturday, and let us know which location is easiest to find open water for your landing

Want to come with me? I can assure you that 19 Mile is not a problem even on the busiest days. As I've said before, Lakes Region Seaplane Tours operated out of Paugus Bay for several years (as did their predecessors), and again there was never a problem. Just another case of NIMBY against some guy trying to make an effort to open a business on State / Public waters.

[BrunoSR]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Want to come with me? I can assure you that 19 Mile is not a problem even on the busiest days. As I've said before, Lakes Region Seaplane Tours operated out of Paugus Bay for several years (as did their predecessors), and again there was never a problem. Just another case of NIMBY against some guy trying to make an effort to open a business on State / Public waters.

Just a question, did Lakes Region Sea Plane Tours use public or private docks to pick up and drop off their customers?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by BrunoSR

Just a question, did Lakes Region Sea Plane Tours use public or private docks to pick up and drop off their customers?

Private, as far as I know. I have no dog in the fight, and have no interest in the dock usage at 19 mile. My interest is in the (bogus) argument that 19 mile bay is too busy for seaplane ops.

[marinewife]

There was constant noise almost every half hour recently at dinner time from a seaplane taking off/landing this past week in the Mirror Lake community- if that's what will happen at 19 Mile Bay, people will be mighty upset.

If people wanted to live near an airport, it probably wouldn't bother them- otherwise, I imagine there will be some pushback.

To my recollection, the original premise from the owner was to build his business up because of Covid concerns in case his main job dissolved. We haven't heard whether his original concerns have vanished, but I have seen a common thread/response by him to anyone who opposes his plans.

If the Forum Admin was able to research the sign-in names of several that are 'pro-Epic', it appears that the same person is behind them.

I believe that Tuftonboro residents are willing to go to bat against the proposal.

[BrunoSR]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Private, as far as I know. I have no dog in the fight, and have no interest in the dock usage at 19 mile. My interest is in the (bogus) argument that 19 mile bay is too busy for seaplane ops.

I have no dog in the fight either. I rent a dock on the other side of the lake, though we do drop a hook in both 19 and 20 mile bays for lunch.

I don't believe the people that are against it, think there isn't enough space for both boat and plane out on the water. It's at the dock that is an issue. Of course I could be totally wrong.

Maybe he should buy or rent a slip and run a launch between dock and boat.... just an idea.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by marinewife

There was constant noise almost every half hour recently at dinner time from a seaplane taking off/landing this past week in the Mirror Lake community- if that's what will happen at 19 Mile Bay, people will be mighty upset.

If people wanted to live near an airport, it probably wouldn't bother them- otherwise, I imagine there will be some pushback.

To my recollection, the original premise from the owner was to build his business up because of Covid concerns in case his main job dissolved. We haven't heard whether his original concerns have vanished, but I have seen a common thread/response by him to anyone who opposes his plans.

If the Forum Admin was able to research the sign-in names of several that are 'pro-Epic', it appears that the same person is behind them.

I believe that Tuftonboro residents are willing to go to bat against the proposal.

I can't speak for any others that are "pro-Epic", but I can tell you for sure, that I have one sign-in name only. I don't know Epic, but what gets me upset is the NIMBY crowd trying to stop appropriate use of State waters. I don't care about the dock issue - that's Epic's problem. As far as the noise is concerned, where's the outrage over all the wake boats blasting hideous music at all hours of the day?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I can't speak for any others that are "pro-Epic", but I can tell you for sure, that I have one sign-in name only. I don't know Epic, but what gets me upset is the NIMBY crowd trying to stop appropriate use of State waters. I don't care about the dock issue - that's Epic's problem. As far as the noise is concerned, where's the outrage over all the wake boats blasting hideous music at all hours of the day?

Although a number of people have expressed concern about traffic and safety, nobody has said he shouldn't be able to use the lake.

There have been dozens of posters on other threads complaining about wake boats' wakes and noise. I'm surprised you don't remember.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Although a number of people have expressed concern about traffic and safety, nobody has said he shouldn't be able to use the lake.

There have been dozens of posters on other threads complaining about wake boats' wakes and noise. I'm surprised you don't remember.

Come on, FS. All the ranting and raving on this about boat traffic, dangerous conditions, noise etc., is specific to the seaplane operations in 19 Mile Bay. The efforts are to prohibit him from operating in that area, which is public access owned by the State. Therefore, they don't want him to use the lake in this specific area.

Regarding wake boats, noise, wakes etc.: OK, there have been numerous threads on here about it, but that's where it ends. No organized efforts to combat loud music and rid 19 Mile Bay of these boats and their associated noise.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Come on, FS. All the ranting and raving on this about boat traffic, dangerous conditions, noise etc., is specific to the seaplane operations in 19 Mile Bay. The efforts are to prohibit him from operating in that area, which is public access owned by the State. Therefore, they don't want him to use the lake in this specific area.

Regarding wake boats, noise, wakes etc.: OK, there have been numerous threads on here about it, but that's where it ends. No organized efforts to combat loud music and rid 19 Mile Bay of these boats and their associated noise.

Yes, there are a number of people in 19 Mile Bay who do not want planes up and down hourly in their back yards. I don't find that unreasonable or infringing on normal plane use of the lake. Just as I don't find it unreasonable to object to circling wake boats.

There has been organized opposition to wake boats. It was beaten back, as these things often are, by industry lobbying that stacked the deck against real action. You might Google NH wake boat commission or something like that. Look at the composition of the committee. Try not to laugh/cry at the idea of that particular group of people representing the general public's view on wake boats.

[Sundancer320]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I can't speak for any others that are "pro-Epic", but I can tell you for sure, that I have one sign-in name only. I don't know Epic, but what gets me upset is the NIMBY crowd trying to stop appropriate use of State waters. I don't care about the dock issue - that's Epic's problem. As far as the noise is concerned, where's the outrage over all the wake boats blasting hideous music at all hours of the day?

Nobody here has any issue with his access to state waters....seaplanes have been here many years. The issue is using a public dock to operate a commercial business from and the liability exposure the town and its taxpayers have from accidents, incidents or injuries. If he wants to use his own dock or the store owner wants to use hers...they can..

[SAB1]

Additionally, a dock with limited boat access as it stands at present.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

Nobody here has any issue with his access to state waters....seaplanes have been here many years. The issue is using a public dock to operate a commercial business from and the liability exposure the town and its taxpayers have from accidents, incidents or injuries. If he wants to use his own dock or the store owner wants to use hers...they can..

Post #385: Your post said "Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run."

If your only issue is "using a public dock to operate a commercial business....", then what does a decibel reading have to do with Epic using the Tuftonboro Town Dock?

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Post #385: Your post said "Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run."

If your only issue is "using a public dock to operate a commercial business....", then what does a decibel reading have to do with Epic using the Tuftonboro Town Dock?

Could it have been simply for informational purposes for those interested in how loud it was?

[Sundancer320]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Post #385: Your post said "Standing at our dock on Chase we recorded 84 decibel peak and constant 80 decibels during the takeoff run."

If your only issue is "using a public dock to operate a commercial business....", then what does a decibel reading have to do with Epic using the Tuftonboro Town Dock?

So what Sherlock.... it’s also noisy.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Sundancer320

So what Sherlock.... it’s also noisy.

So there is another agenda. And by the way, pound sand on the Sherlock name calling.

[Closetzguy]

if you have taken a party up for a ride and the public dock fills with boats having lunch, buying ice cream, launching boats, etc.......what do you do when you land and you have another party waiting to go up?

Do you just idle around the no wake buoy until something opens up? That seems dangerous if that prop is spinning around. Not to mention loud and creating lots of exhaust. If you choose to float around further out in the bay, you will be certain to get passed over by other boats sneaking into the dock in front of you.

If and when a spot does open up.....it maybe something inbound and difficult for you to get into safely.

You could literally get stuck out there for quite a while. I have gone there many times on the weekend and not been able to dock......and waited 30 plus minutes or just turned around and left. That's with an easily maneuverable boat, not a plane.

Thoughts?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Closetzguy

if you have taken a party up for a ride and the public dock fills with boats having lunch, buying ice cream, launching boats, etc.......what do you do when you land and you have another party waiting to go up?

Do you just idle around the no wake buoy until something opens up? That seems dangerous if that prop is spinning around. Not to mention loud and creating lots of exhaust. If you choose to float around further out in the bay, you will be certain to get passed over by other boats sneaking into the dock in front of you.

If and when a spot does open up.....it maybe something inbound and difficult for you to get into safely.

You could literally get stuck out there for quite a while. I have gone there many times on the weekend and not been able to dock......and waited 30 plus minutes or just turned around and left. That's with an easily maneuverable boat, not a plane.

Thoughts?

I asked all these questions much earlier in the thread and never received an answer.

I believe that is because the only answer is holding space.

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[knowit]

The only smoke screen here is being put out by Epic himself. He says he does not plan to”run his business here”, but in reality he really can not tell us how frequently he will be using the dock because he has no idea how much business he will get. If he say anything else he is simple lying. He has no idea but if we allow him to use the public dock for “occasional “ use then the precedent is set and there is nothing stopping him from using it more and more. This is the real danger here and this is what everyone should be concerned with. Plain and simple, if you want to operate a business here do it from the store’s private dock. Otherwise you are not welcome here and I for one will do whatever it takes to block it.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by knowit

The only smoke screen here is being put out by Epic himself. He says he does not plan to”run his business here”, but in reality he really can not tell us how frequently he will be using the dock because he has no idea how much business he will get. If he say anything else he is simple lying. He has no idea but if we allow him to use the public dock for “occasional “ use then the precedent is set and there is nothing stopping him from using it more and more. This is the real danger here and this is what everyone should be concerned with. Plain and simple, if you want to operate a business here do it from the store’s private dock. Otherwise you are not welcome here and I for one will do whatever it takes to block it.

I actually stopped @ Pier 19 to examine their "new" dock the other day. It does look very nice, and appeared to be freshly rebuilt for the purpose of selling their boat gasoline retail business. Because their actual dock is located directly next to land (on two sides) then I would say it is impossible for a plane to ever tie up there. It's hard enough to get a 30' boat safely in and out of there, so I would say a small aircraft would not have a safe place to maneuver in and out of there.

This boat gasoline business is a bit different @ Pier 19 as it is not located at the outer end of a typical dock, rather it is located at the inner land side end of a separate, privately owned condominium space dock (with a locked access gate). In fact, some boaters unfamiliar with the area may not even know that gasoline is even available for purchase there due to lack of visibility approaching from 19 Mile Bay.

With that said, the only option is the Town owned dock and that dock would need some minor alteration in order to accommodate an aircraft...... and it doesn't appear that the Town is too anxious to allow that. Therefore I believe it is highly unlikely for any of this to actually happen.

[RTTOOL]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

As I read some of these posts I ahve to wonder how familar some of your are with unison wharf...... There is a large part of the north side of the dock, that isn't usable for boats except those with almost no draft, like a pontoon boat, or ha ha a float plane.

As for the posts, as a member of the boating public, of over 40 years, and in more area's of the country that I care to count.... The argument here over the dock post height is absolutely ridiculous. Do you realize this isn't even a conversation on most lakes, rivers and the ocean where dock structures don't even include posts ? OMG what do they tie their boats to.....

As I have seen with most debates on this forum, many of you show your novice boating knowledge, and lack of experience of boating anywhere but Winnipesaukee. For some reason people have decided posts are mandatory for safe dockage of a boat..... They aren't... The whole design of union wharf is ridiculous. And honestly it should be taken out and replaced.... But after seeing the debate here, I can't imagine the noise that would be caused by totaling taking out the wharf and installing something that was more practical.

Folks the world is changing, you can fight the change, and end up miserable because you in the end don't end up with what you deem as the perfect environment, or you can embrace change, and move on with light.

As for the assertion from someone that I am ESA mouth piece, nothing could be farther from the truth. But what I am is someone that listens to all sides of the story.... Much like the speed limit debate, the debate here is become emotional, people are loosing sight of the facts.... A sea plane might not be your couple of tea, neither may a performance boat...... but you know what they have every much a right of to the lake as everyone else.....

I always thought the moto for New Hampshire was "Live Free or Die".... The older I get, the more I realize the moto is "Live Free our way, or get the hell out"......

The reason for the FAA approval and designation does nothing more that get a waypoint set for the location, so that it shows up on Maps, and can be used when filing a flight plan.

Cutting down the posts does nothing to effect the use model of the wharf. In fact I am willing to bet some of the barge businesses etc. will enjoy it as well.....

With all the noise over this, honestly it is know wonder, that business at that site continues to struggle.... any thought to expanding current services is met with hostility, and an unwillingness to discuss and compromise.

The Live free or DIE moto was before all the Mass and New York moved IN...

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by knowit

The only smoke screen here is being put out by Epic himself. He says he does not plan to”run his business here”, but in reality he really can not tell us how frequently he will be using the dock because he has no idea how much business he will get. If he say anything else he is simple lying. He has no idea but if we allow him to use the public dock for “occasional “ use then the precedent is set and there is nothing stopping him from using it more and more. This is the real danger here and this is what everyone should be concerned with. Plain and simple, if you want to operate a business here do it from the store’s private dock. Otherwise you are not welcome here and I for one will do whatever it takes to block it.

The store does not have a “private dock” that can accommodate a seaplane. It’s only dock is the gas dock


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[knowit]

Well isn’t that a shame?
So how then does it become the town’s issue simply because she doesn’t have the infrastructure?

Plain and simply, it doesn’t.
No commercial planes at the town dock.
When this goes to the town vote this will be dead.
Unfortunately we need to listen to Epic’s rants until then.

[marinewife]

Been hearing a lot of seaplane trips for the past month and wondered if there was a new ad somewhere-

Today, at the Pier 19 store, there's an ad on the window- it has Epic's plane photos, a phone number, email, and how to book online.

Maybe all he needed was advertising there and he doesn't need the dock anymore...

[Wentworth06]

Question,
I see on the website that the seaplane or in reality Float Plane is based on mirror lake. I’m curious as to what the residents think of having this based there. I see them and others come into our area a lot now and like seeing them but rolling up next to us and departing close by I may think differently.

[Tyler]

Epic will tell ya everyone on Mirror Lake loves him and has no issues with him taking off multiple times a day. Talk to many of his neighbors and you will get a completely different story. A few vocal people who support him will say on social media all is fine however many Mirror Lake residents are fed up but do not want to publicly state their displeasure and are voicing their concerns behind the scenes.

[C-Bass]

How is this any different than the Mount Washington, Winnipesaukee Belle, Millie B, Lake Life, and who knows who else use the Wolfeboro town docks to generate revenue. As far as I know those are public docks owned by the town to generate revenue for a private business. I'm sure they might pay for that right to use the docks but, I don't see anyone getting all worked up over it. What's the difference?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by C-Bass

How is this any different than the Mount Washington, Winnipesaukee Belle, Millie B, Lake Life, and who knows who else use the Wolfeboro town docks to generate revenue. As far as I know those are public docks owned by the town to generate revenue for a private business. I'm sure they might pay for that right to use the docks but, I don't see anyone getting all worked up over it. What's the difference?

Those docks are either private or specifically designed for use by those businesses, not the public. As such, they do not tie up publicly designated areas.

There are comments above about the Pier 19 store/Epic creating new docks for their businesses, which I think is a fine idea.

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[owenoutdoors]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Those docks are either private or specifically designed for use by those businesses, not the public. As such, they do not tie up publicly designated areas.

There are comments above about the Pier 19 store/Epic creating new docks for their businesses, which I think is a fine idea.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

building docks on what land? It would have to be on state land or in front of private waterfront. If you aren't familiar with 19 mile bay, left of the union wharf is private waterfront and right of the gas pumps is state land. The gas docks go right up next to the states land and cannot be expanded.

[Lil' Barndoor Guy]

The seaplane pilot decided to land right in the middle of the Wolfeboro Bay boat race coarse on Saturday. Thankfully, it was during a break in the racing. He tried to park at the public docks which were reserved for the race boats. He was told that he could not, so he beached the plane on the private beach next to the docks and tied it to a tree. He was told he could not take off until the race was over (4 hours), but sure enough, 2 hours later he was on the move. I saw Marine Patrol taking to him but I don't know what was done. I guess rules don't apply to seaplanes.

[Randy Owen]

At the board of selectman's meeting Monday September 13 Chip Albee identified Camp Belknap's intention to enter this issue with yet another lawsuit and with more legal bills for the town, the store and the owner of the sea plane.

[Epic Seaplane Adventures]

Originally Posted by Lil' Barndoor Guy

The seaplane pilot

Can you be more specific? Did you get the pilot's name? Did you get the tail number? Did you get an aircraft type? Because it wasn't me. What I am finding out is that most people who dislike seaplanes (like Chip) don't know the difference between one seaplane and another. Everywhere a seaplane shows up people think it's me. It's good advertising for sure, and I appreciate it!

It is nice to see that the community is opening their eyes to the fact that there are a lot of seaplanes around and that they can operate safely, and coexist even in a crazy environment like a boat race. I'm assuming the seaplane didn't have an accident or get ticketed for doing anything illegal? Glad everything worked out fine. Glad he had the sense to not land during the race (good decision) and glad he didn't destroy his airplane by coming into the docks with the high dock posts, but chose the beach instead!

[winniwannabe]

I live near Logan airport most of the year, so I understand the noise factor.
However, I love being outside on the deck looking up at planes of all sizes flying overhead. When I'm at the lake for my 2 weeks in the summer, I love seeing
a seaplane. Once a helicopter flew by our dock about 25 ft. altitude. I
thought it was kinda cool. Also made sure nothing was wrong.(found out
later that there's a private heliport in Gilford or somewhere else nearby).
It amazes me that when the Green Mountain Boys are up there doing drills
no one has a problem w/ the noise. Yes, it's comforting that the civil air
patrol is up there, and I see (and hear) alot of B52 flyovers at my house.
I believe there are sightseeing tours now, but I think the pilot's based out of Laconia. I'll get down from my soapbox now... good luck. Hope an outcome is happy for all.

[knowit]

This is awesome. Thank you Camp Belknap!
It definitely was not Epic at the races. I ran the tail number.
Epic , you have balls calling out Chip. Not much brains, but balls.
Randy, you will never peacefully coexist with the camp. Just sell them your half of the island and move on. Tired of seeing your posts slamming them .

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Randy Owen

At the board of selectman's meeting Monday September 13 Chip Albee identified Camp Belknap's intention to enter this issue with yet another lawsuit and with more legal bills for the town, the store and the owner of the sea plane.

I don’t believe the prospect of any lawsuit was raised. Camp Belknap’s attorney made a submission to the selectmen that apparently identified many of the existing legal impediments with running a seaplane tour business out of 19 mile bay. What was mentioned at the meeting is that the Pier 19 store would need to obtain a variance since the store is in a residential (not commercial) zone and the existing variance and site plan review did not include running a seaplane tour business from the property (recall that the store is on the permit application for the runway). This is not a new issue, and has been raised previously on this forum and with the selectmen.

The camp’s attorney also noted that they are raising safety issues with a runway in 19-mile bay with the appropriate state officials.

[Mirror Lake's BB]

We live on Mirror Lake and have been woken up by the noise the plane makes as it roars over houses during takeoff and landing. Last fall, the plane took off and landed 3 times on one day and 4 on another. How can there be a commercial company operating in an area zoned residential? There are many others on the lake that feel that the plane disturbs the quiet nature of the lake and belongs elsewhere.

[chasedawg]

i understand there was a 19 mile bay seaplane hearing last night in Tuftonboro with T-tee shirts SAYING RUNWAY? NOW WAY.!
Did anyone attend? What was the result?

[knowit]

It was a fantastic turnout. Majority of folks were locals and against the runway except for Epic and his out of town cronies that came to sing his praises.
The meeting was put on by the state not Tuftonboro. The main purpose was safety. The lawyer for the case against the runway was amazing. Someone is bankrolling this and it shows. He made all valid safety concerns and the state is now going to consider all points raised. This action by the state will certainly help the town when it’s time for them to consider Epic’s commercial use of the Pier. I can’t wait till this goes to a town vote. If the meeting turnout is any indication, there is no way this will pass. Next up we need to ban Epic from using his Mirror Lake residence for commercial purposes. Lots of his neighbors are pissed off.
Oh, and to show what kind of person he is there were two seaplanes doing touch and goes on 19 mile bay this morning. I guess someone is not happy with the way the meeting went.

[knowit]

Originally Posted by Mirror Lake's BB

We live on Mirror Lake and have been woken up by the noise the plane makes as it roars over houses during takeoff and landing. Last fall, the plane took off and landed 3 times on one day and 4 on another. How can there be a commercial company operating in an area zoned residential? There are many others on the lake that feel that the plane disturbs the quiet nature of the lake and belongs elsewhere.

You really should log a formal complaint with the town about this. There are rules in place for the commercial use of a residence. The more people that complain the better. Organize your neighbors. This can be stopped or at least curtailed.

[tis]

We saw the two planes close together come out of Mirror Lake in the morning. I wondered why they were so close.

[Force5]

Originally Posted by knowit

It was a fantastic turnout. Majority of folks were locals and against the runway except for Epic and his out of town cronies that came to sing his praises.
The meeting was put on by the state not Tuftonboro. The main purpose was safety. The lawyer for the case against the runway was amazing. Someone is bankrolling this and it shows. He made all valid safety concerns and the state is now going to consider all points raised. This action by the state will certainly help the town when it’s time for them to consider Epic’s commercial use of the Pier. I can’t wait till this goes to a town vote. If the meeting turnout is any indication, there is no way this will pass. Next up we need to ban Epic from using his Mirror Lake residence for commercial purposes. Lots of his neighbors are pissed off.
Oh, and to show what kind of person he is there were two seaplanes doing touch and goes on 19 mile bay this morning. I guess someone is not happy with the way the meeting went.

Why would have to vote if state turns runway for safety reasons? Makes no sense. Case closed!?

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by Force5

Why would have to vote if state turns runway for safety reasons? Makes no sense. Case closed!?

Not sure I’m grasping your comment…..

[LIforrelaxin]

I continue to follow this thread although at times I wonder why...... Everyone is concerned over a runway being established in 19 mile bay.... weather that happens or not, it doesn't prevent sea planes from landing there..... Just like there is nothing that prevents them from landing on mirror lake.....

I will not say that EPIC handled things correctly... but at the end of the day, way more is being made of this then should be. Currently there is nothing that stops sea planes from landing in 19 mile bay and tying up at the pier. Getting the Runway designation, only means it will be marked on Maps and have an official designation, with the FAA....

That people where upset about the potential for a Sea-Plane base I get.... but for godness sake .... COMPRIMISE, let the runway designation go through....

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I continue to follow this thread although at times I wonder why...... Everyone is concerned over a runway being established in 19 mile bay.... weather that happens or not, it doesn't prevent sea planes from landing there..... Just like there is nothing that prevents them from landing on mirror lake.....

I will not say that EPIC handled things correctly... but at the end of the day, way more is being made of this then should be. Currently there is nothing that stops sea planes from landing in 19 mile bay and tying up at the pier. Getting the Runway designation, only means it will be marked on Maps and have an official designation, with the FAA....

That people where upset about the potential for a Sea-Plane base I get.... but for godness sake .... COMPRIMISE, let the runway designation go through....

Well said and agree. Planes can land wherever they want and no problem with that. It’s been that way as long I remember. Somehow the whole business concept of seaplane rides off the town dock slipped into another path.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I continue to follow this thread although at times I wonder why...... Everyone is concerned over a runway being established in 19 mile bay.... weather that happens or not, it doesn't prevent sea planes from landing there..... Just like there is nothing that prevents them from landing on mirror lake.....

I will not say that EPIC handled things correctly... but at the end of the day, way more is being made of this then should be. Currently there is nothing that stops sea planes from landing in 19 mile bay and tying up at the pier. Getting the Runway designation, only means it will be marked on Maps and have an official designation, with the FAA....

That people where upset about the potential for a Sea-Plane base I get.... but for godness sake .... COMPRIMISE, let the runway designation go through....

LI, just to clarify: The petition was filed with the State to BAN seaplanes from 19 Mile Bay in its entirety. I think it will crash and burn (excuse the pun), but here’s the language from the hearing notice just so everyone knows what the NIMBY’s have been cooking up:

STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
DEPARTMENT OF SAFETY
NOTICE OF HEARING

PURSUANT TO RSA 270:12, A PUBLIC HEARING ON A PETITION SEEKING A CLOSURE OF NINETEENMILE BAY ON LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE TO SEAPLANES, IN ITS ENTIRETY, SPECIFICALLY FROM THE WESTERNMOST END OF CHASE POINT, BEHIND THE WEST SIDE OF MELVIN ISLAND AND TO THE WESTERNMOST END OF SAWYER POINT, TUFTONBORO, NEW HAMPSHIRE, WILL BE HELD ON THURSDAY, JULY 7, 2022 AT 7:00 PM, AT THE TUFTONBORO CENTRAL SCHOOL GYMNASIUM, 205 MIDDLE ROAD, CENTER TUFTONBORO, NEW HAMPSHIRE.

TESTIMONY WILL BE ALLOWED THAT IS RELEVANT TO THE FOLLOWING ISSUES:

(1) THE SIZE OF THE BODY OF WATER OR PORTION THEREOF FOR WHICH RULEMAKING ACTION IS BEING CONSIDERED.
(2) THE EFFECT WHICH ADOPTING OR NOT ADOPTING THE RULE (S) WOULD HAVE UPON:
(A) PUBLIC SAFETY;
(B) THE MAINTENANCE OF RESIDENTIAL, RECREATIONAL AND SCENIC VALUES;
(C) THE VARIETY OF USES OF SUCH BODY OF WATER OR PORTION THEREOF;
(D) THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER QUALITY;
(E) THREATENED AND ENDANGERED SPECIES.
(3) THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AFFECTED, EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY, BY ADOPTING OR NOT ADOPTING THE RULE(S); AND
(4) THE AVAILABILITY AND PRACTICALITY OF ENFORCEMENT OF THE RULE(S).

PERSONS WISHING TO TESTIFY ARE URGED TO COORDINATE THEIR TESTIMONY TO AVOID UNNECESSARY DUPLICATION OR REPETITION. THE DEPARTMENT, WITHIN A PERIOD OF SEVEN (7) DAYS AFTER THE SCHEDULED HEARING, MUST RECEIVE SUBMISSION OF WRITTEN MATERIAL.

AUTHORITY FOR HEARING: RSA 270:12 AND SAF-C 409.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

LI, just to clarify: The petition was filed with the State to BAN seaplanes from 19 Mile Bay in its entirety. I think it will crash and burn (excuse the pun), but here’s the language from the hearing notice just so everyone knows what the NIMBY’s have been cooking up:

STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
DEPARTMENT OF SAFETY
NOTICE OF HEARING

PURSUANT TO RSA 270:12, A PUBLIC HEARING ON A PETITION SEEKING A CLOSURE OF NINETEENMILE BAY ON LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE TO SEAPLANES, IN ITS ENTIRETY, SPECIFICALLY FROM THE WESTERNMOST END OF CHASE POINT, BEHIND THE WEST SIDE OF MELVIN ISLAND AND TO THE WESTERNMOST END OF SAWYER POINT, TUFTONBORO, NEW HAMPSHIRE, WILL BE HELD ON THURSDAY, JULY 7, 2022 AT 7:00 PM, AT THE TUFTONBORO CENTRAL SCHOOL GYMNASIUM, 205 MIDDLE ROAD, CENTER TUFTONBORO, NEW HAMPSHIRE.

TESTIMONY WILL BE ALLOWED THAT IS RELEVANT TO THE FOLLOWING ISSUES:

(1) THE SIZE OF THE BODY OF WATER OR PORTION THEREOF FOR WHICH RULEMAKING ACTION IS BEING CONSIDERED.
(2) THE EFFECT WHICH ADOPTING OR NOT ADOPTING THE RULE (S) WOULD HAVE UPON:
(A) PUBLIC SAFETY;
(B) THE MAINTENANCE OF RESIDENTIAL, RECREATIONAL AND SCENIC VALUES;
(C) THE VARIETY OF USES OF SUCH BODY OF WATER OR PORTION THEREOF;
(D) THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER QUALITY;
(E) THREATENED AND ENDANGERED SPECIES.
(3) THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AFFECTED, EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY, BY ADOPTING OR NOT ADOPTING THE RULE(S); AND
(4) THE AVAILABILITY AND PRACTICALITY OF ENFORCEMENT OF THE RULE(S).

PERSONS WISHING TO TESTIFY ARE URGED TO COORDINATE THEIR TESTIMONY TO AVOID UNNECESSARY DUPLICATION OR REPETITION. THE DEPARTMENT, WITHIN A PERIOD OF SEVEN (7) DAYS AFTER THE SCHEDULED HEARING, MUST RECEIVE SUBMISSION OF WRITTEN MATERIAL.

AUTHORITY FOR HEARING: RSA 270:12 AND SAF-C 409.

Legislation like that is dangerous......As you say I hope this falls apart at the seams..... Like No Rafting Zones, once the first one is established other area's of the lake will start doing the same....

Personally I love watching sea planes come in and take off.....

[tg38]

where are the mufflers on those planes. wonder how they would like if shoe was on the other shoe. very annoying

[Seaplane Pilot]

I have word that a decision has been made in this matter.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Thankfully cool heads prevailed.

https://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/...-bay-order.pdf

[LIforrelaxin]

Thanks for the update, I am glad cooler heads prevailed.... This would have simply been wrong...

[thinkxingu]

If I'm reading that correctly, the petition was to ban seaplanes in 19-Mile Bay and that the petition failed?

I thought the original issue regarded the town docks being adjusted to allow seaplanes to dock there?

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

[ITD]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

If I'm reading that correctly, the petition was to ban seaplanes in 19-Mile Bay and that the petition failed?

I thought the original issue regarded the town docks being adjusted to allow seaplanes to dock there?

Sent from my SM-G990U1 using Tapatalk

This is a group of people who don't want sea planes landing on the lake. From what I can tell, the hullabaloo came to a head over an operator asking for a dock to be modified so he could occasionally operate to the dock. Coincidently there is a petition to create a seabase on the bay, which would define an area for seaplanes to operate. The problem from what I read is that the DOT already approved the seabase and it is their jurisdiction. This report recommended, for a variety of reasons detailed in the report, not approve the petitioned ban on sea planes.

[winniwannabe]

Maybe I'm a little off base here, but I think old maps of the Lake used to show a seaplane route. As a kid, I remember a seaplane landing on the water and taxiing to his dock along the east side of Alton Bay. I always thought that was sooo cool, flying to their cottage.

I don't think it would be practical now on most parts of the Lake. To much boat traffic. Best wishes to all who support or oppose a dock in 19 Mile Bay.

side note to Up the Saukee... you probably remember the plane and the owner. Well known car dealer in MA.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Personally I love watching sea planes come in and take off.....

Me too! Have enjoyed watching them all my life. I enjoy the sound as well.

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I continue to follow this thread although at times I wonder why...... Everyone is concerned over a runway being established in 19 mile bay.... weather that happens or not, it doesn't prevent sea planes from landing there..... Just like there is nothing that prevents them from landing on mirror lake.....

I will not say that EPIC handled things correctly... but at the end of the day, way more is being made of this then should be. Currently there is nothing that stops sea planes from landing in 19 mile bay and tying up at the pier. Getting the Runway designation, only means it will be marked on Maps and have an official designation, with the FAA....

That people where upset about the potential for a Sea-Plane base I get.... but for godness sake .... COMPRIMISE, let the runway designation go through....

It was a close call.... We were coming out of Pier 19 marina today when a seaplane took off right in front of us. We had to turn to avoid him other wise we would have been coming across in front of him. He was not in our danger zone but he certainly was in our danger zone. He was in a stand by encounter situation. He didn't have any regard for the marine rules of the road. He is suppose to have a boating license because seaplanes what I have been told must obey boating regulations just like a boat. As he went by us you could tell he was looking up to take off. There was no way he could see what was in front of him. Two paddle boarders had to drop off their boards otherwise they too were in a potential run over by a seaplane.

What would you do in this situation? Wait till the seaplane returned to where he is picking up paying passengers to tell him what happened to you? Or just report the incident to marine patrol or even the FAA?
Just curious what would be the appropriate reporting agency?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

It was a close call.... We were coming out of Pier 19 marina today when a seaplane took off right in front of us. We had to turn to avoid him other wise we would have been coming across in front of him. He was not in our danger zone but he certainly was in our danger zone. He was in a stand by encounter situation. He didn't have any regard for the marine rules of the road. He is suppose to have a boating license because seaplanes what I have been told must obey boating regulations just like a boat. As he went by us you could tell he was looking up to take off. There was no way he could see what was in front of him. Two paddle boarders had to drop off their boards otherwise they too were in a potential run over by a seaplane.

What would you do in this situation? Wait till the seaplane returned to where he is picking up paying passengers to tell him what happened to you? Or just report the incident to marine patrol or even the FAA?
Just curious what would be the appropriate reporting agency?

If the incident needs to be reported, I would start with the Marine Patrol.... they can make the decision, or advise you if it needs to go the the FAA.... I would make sure you have the tail number of the plane, as that is its identifier.....

[The Real BigGuy]

If he didn’t clear his take off his run before starting he is not meeting his responsibilities under his seaplane license. In this case I would report to FAA. You will need the planes’ I’d number.

On the other hand, boaters should not to cross his path once he has started his run regardless if they have “right of way.” Once he starts his takeoff run he has many things to be watching and can’t devote 100% of his time to watching for boaters and it is much more difficult, & potentially dangerous, for the plane to suddenly have to take evasive maneuvers. It is kind of like deferring to a larger craft because you are more maneuverable. It should never turn into an “but I had the right of way” accident.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

On the other hand, boaters should not to cross his path once he has started his run regardless if they have “right of way.” Once he starts his takeoff run he has many things to be watching and can’t devote 100% of his time to watching for boaters and it is much more difficult, & potentially dangerous, for the plane to suddenly have to take evasive maneuvers. It is kind of like deferring to a larger craft because you are more maneuverable. It should never turn into an “but I had the right of way” accident.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

This is exactly why it is wrong to promote increased seaplane use in a busy area

[Billy Bob]

I think if you review what happened it will clearly be the boaters fault.
You can’t say you dident know he was preparing to take off. The plane makes egnough noise and spray that people a mile away know what’s going on.
You can’t say you dident know his course. Once he starts the run it’s a straight line to takeoff.
Perhaps your desire to get rid of seaplanes on the lake was the real obstacle here.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

It was a close call.... We were coming out of Pier 19 marina today when a seaplane took off right in front of us. We had to turn to avoid him other wise we would have been coming across in front of him. He was not in our danger zone but he certainly was in our danger zone. He was in a stand by encounter situation. He didn't have any regard for the marine rules of the road. He is suppose to have a boating license because seaplanes what I have been told must obey boating regulations just like a boat. As he went by us you could tell he was looking up to take off. There was no way he could see what was in front of him. Two paddle boarders had to drop off their boards otherwise they too were in a potential run over by a seaplane.

What would you do in this situation? Wait till the seaplane returned to where he is picking up paying passengers to tell him what happened to you? Or just report the incident to marine patrol or even the FAA?
Just curious what would be the appropriate reporting agency?

The first time I pushed the quote button on your post the "thanks" appeared, now it says I don't have permission to remove. Anyway, I'm having trouble understanding this post.



"He was not in our danger zone but he was certainly in our danger zone." What does that mean?

He was in a "stand by" situation, again what does that mean?

" Two paddle boarders had to drop off their boards otherwise they too were in a potential run over by a seaplane. " Paddle boards move at maybe 4 or 5 mph, dropping off the board, will not prevent a collision with an aircraft accelerating to take off. Maybe they were enjoying the show?

Pilots taking off do not look up, they look in front of them which includes where a potential collision would occur.

I'm sorry, it just doesn't make sense.

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

It was a close call.... We were coming out of Pier 19 marina today when a seaplane took off right in front of us. We had to turn to avoid him other wise we would have been coming across in front of him. He was not in our danger zone but he certainly was in our danger zone. He was in a stand by encounter situation. He didn't have any regard for the marine rules of the road. He is suppose to have a boating license because seaplanes what I have been told must obey boating regulations just like a boat. As he went by us you could tell he was looking up to take off. There was no way he could see what was in front of him. Two paddle boarders had to drop off their boards otherwise they too were in a potential run over by a seaplane.

Umm.... you might need a refresher course on the laws especially regarding Seaplanes! In NH, Seaplanes exempt from ALL laws and rules concerning the operation of boats for the purpose of landing and taking off from public waters. If you put yourself in a crossing situation with a Seaplane, it is definitely on you!

https://casetext.com/statute/new-ham...-public-waters

Woodsy

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Umm.... you might need a refresher course on the laws especially regarding Seaplanes! In NH, Seaplanes exempt from ALL laws and rules concerning the operation of boats for the purpose of landing and taking off from public waters. If you put yourself in a crossing situation with a Seaplane, it is definitely on you!

https://casetext.com/statute/new-ham...-public-waters

Woodsy

Separate from the law and whether chasedawg's in need of a refresher--you seem to be implying that adding more seaplane traffic to a heavily boated area is the boaters' problem. Have you been to 19 Mile Bay on a summer weekend? Always plenty of boats, many with captains I would bet are much less knowledgable than most on this forum. This is a really bad accident just waiting to happen

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Separate from the law and whether chasedawg's in need of a refresher--you seem to be implying that adding more seaplane traffic to a heavily boated area is the boaters' problem. Have you been to 19 Mile Bay on a summer weekend? Always plenty of boats, many with captains I would bet are much less knowledgable than most on this forum. This is a really bad accident just waiting to happen

To answer your question, yes, I have been to 19 Mile Bay on busy weekends. (I like the fried chicken available across the street) and it's a cool place to hang. However, I am implying no such thing about Seaplane traffic... Your post however seems to be implying that area is only open to boats and Seaplanes are unwelcome. Seaplanes have just as much right to use 19 Mile bay (or any place on the lake) as anyone else. Personally, I would rather have the runway marked on a chart to make me aware of possible Seaplane operations. There has been one in Paugus Bay for as long as I can remember.

Woodsy

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

To answer your question, yes, I have been to 19 Mile Bay on busy weekends. (I like the fried chicken available across the street) and it's a cool place to hang. However, I am implying no such thing about Seaplane traffic... Your post however seems to be implying that area is only open to boats and Seaplanes are unwelcome. Seaplanes have just as much right to use 19 Mile bay (or any place on the lake) as anyone else. Personally, I would rather have the runway marked on a chart to make me aware of possible Seaplane operations. There has been one in Paugus Bay for as long as I can remember.

Woodsy

That's fair. Like you, I did not mean to imply more than I wrote. My concern is that marking it on a chart is likely to increase seaplane traffic, and I don't think that's safe in that area in the summer, even if there is a legal right to do so

[LIforrelaxin]

This thread is going back in circles... The concern remains the same, is there enough room in 19 mile bay for both Sea Plane and boat traffic, and will a designated running in the bay cause more sea plane traffic. So lets ask our selves a question or two:

1. what would draw in the sea plane traffic with a designated runway?
2. Are their adequate facilities to tie up sea planes?

When you think about those two questions, really 19 mile bay isn't that attractive. Now if facilities where put in place to make a more ideal situation for Sea Planes to dock temporarily maybe there would be an argument that the store could be a draw for people. But Honestly that is it.... And I don't think the store is going to be able to add docking to allow that to happen....

At the end of the day, this is just something to needlessly squabble about...People need to just let this go..... A simple question was raise, on who to report a perceived wrong doing to.... I left my suggestion, and then the debate started again.... let it rest...

[ITD]

I don't have a seaplane rating, but a designated runway would be counterproductive considering the vocal opposition to seaplanes. I can see it now, if the waterway was approved and charted, these people would then be upset at seaplanes landing outside of the designated runway. There are probably at least thousands of seaplane operations a day in the US, accidents are rare and collisions with boats or other objects are even more rare. Probably a better chance of being struck by lightning, definitely a better chance of being injured driving a car.

[fatlazyless]

With 468-posts, and counting, so far, in this thread ....... has the Epic Seaplane Adventures website ..... www.epicseaplaneadventures.com ...... or ..... www.facebook.com/epicseaplaneadventures ..... made it into this thread, yet?

Knowing very little about float planes other that they are intended for landing on a smooth lake water surface in remote areas without a landing strip/airport, this old red & white float plane is a very happening looking, small float plane.

Laconia Municipal Airport in Gilford, NH has a 5890-foot paved runway, very usable by large jet airplanes and has no regularly scheduled commercial passenger airline service so it is always 24/7, 100% available for landing and take-offs by private planes.

Is about ten air miles flight from Nineteen Mile Bay on Lake Winnipesaukee?