Welch Island rescue

[chachee52]

Someone called in a fire on Welch, Gilford has gone out to look on their ATV, found nothing on their way back fell through, Currently sending Hoover Craft out to help.
No fire was ever found
This is happening right now.

[chachee52]

Sounds like they have walked back to shore and the 2 FD are safe. They aren't really saying where they went through, they were on their way back from Welch. Timing wise, I would say they were probably closer to Glendale than out by the island. Either way, sounds like Gilford is getting a new ATV I would say.
Glad to hear everyone is safe

[tis]

Wow, I saw the report of smoke from Tuftonboro Neck, but I didn't see the rest of the story. I'm glad the firemen are ok and there apparently was no fire. It does show how careful people need to be on the ice though.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by chachee52

Sounds like they have walked back to shore and the 2 FD are safe. They aren't really saying where they went through, they were on their way back from Welch. Timing wise, I would say they were probably closer to Glendale than out by the island. Either way, sounds like Gilford is getting a new ATV I would say.
Glad to hear everyone is safe

I’m out here now and we saw the commotion. My guess is they tried to cross a bad pressure ridge that formed yesterday afternoon just off Belknap point…

Glad everyone is OK!

Dan

[dickiej]

This is a perfect example of how rescuers can be put at risk by irresponsible or even deliberate behavior…I’m thinking people who go on wilderness adventures totally unprepared thinking “ I’ll just call 911 if I get into trouble”…. or even worse, people who call in false reports of being in danger. This is also why they should be held accountable, both monetarily and criminally.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by dickiej

This is a perfect example of how rescuers can be put at risk by irresponsible or even deliberate behavior…I’m thinking people who go on wilderness adventures totally unprepared thinking “ I’ll just call 911 if I get into trouble”…. or even worse, people who call in false reports of being in danger. This is also why they should be held accountable, both monetarily and criminally.

Agreed, at least mostly. I have almost no experience on ice, but it's hard to understand how the rescue team would go out on an ATV if there was significant ice risk, and/or why they do not have a hovercraft

[Descant]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Agreed, at least mostly. I have almost no experience on ice, but it's hard to understand how the rescue team would go out on an ATV if there was significant ice risk, and/or why they do not have a hovercraft

Post#1 indicates they have a "Hoover", which went out to assist the ATV problem.

[Tofu]

Originally Posted by Descant

Post#1 indicates they have a "Hoover", which went out to assist the ATV problem.

My thought was WHY did they not use the Hoover Craft in the first place if Ice In was just declared recently and the thought of un-safe ice was even in the conversation. Just a 1+1=2 common sense thought.

1 Floats and 1 doesn't. Hmm!

[chachee52]

Didn't see what happened, just heard on the scanner. There must have been enough ice because they made it around Welch and was heading back to Glendale.
It just shows that NO ICE is safe ice.
I do know that there were a few ice houses out there, and looking and listening IShoot was out that way as well. So instead of waiting for Tuftonbough to show up with the hover craft they deemed it safe "enough" to go out on the ATV.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Tofu

My thought was WHY did they not use the Hoover Craft in the first place if Ice In was just declared recently and the thought of un-safe ice was even in the conversation. Just a 1+1=2 common sense thought.

1 Floats and 1 doesn't. Hmm!

I gave up volunteering my own time because of comments like this!

Decisions are made as the event is HAPPENING!

Some of the public comes to an up-rise AFTER the fact to criticize the response.

Thanks to ALL emergency responders for what you do!

[upthesaukee]

Where was the Hovercraft located? When I heard the call on the scanner, I thought the hovercraft was coming over from Moultonborough. Then the ATV was dispatched from Gilford.

Dave

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Where was the Hovercraft located? When I heard the call on the scanner, I thought the hovercraft was coming over from Moultonborough. Then the ATV was dispatched from Gilford.

Dave

They were put on standby by Command at Glendale when nothing was showing from land.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

I gave up volunteering my own time because of comments like this!

Decisions are made as the event is HAPPENING!

Some of the public comes to an up-rise AFTER the fact to criticize the response.

Thanks to ALL emergency responders for what you do!

Very hard job...

[tis]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Where was the Hovercraft located? When I heard the call on the scanner, I thought the hovercraft was coming over from Moultonborough. Then the ATV was dispatched from Gilford.

Dave

I thought the hovercraft was coming from either Moultonborough or Tuftonboro too, and then I hear about the ATV coming from Gilford.

[Mr. V]

Just wondering...will they attempt to remove the ATV from lake bottom now, or wait til spring?

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by tis

I thought the hovercraft was coming from either Moultonborough or Tuftonboro too, and then I hear about the ATV coming from Gilford.

Gilford asked for M and T to come as backup and to stand by at the launch. They were not on the original call because Welch is in Gilford, so Gilford and Laconia were the 1st to be called out.
When it came down to it, they made a decision that there was enough ice for the ATV, which there clearly was because they made it out and on their way back went through.
Again, just shows that no ice is safe ice, no matter what thickness around the area may be. This was clearly one of those situations, they went out to try to do their job and make sure people were safe because someone on Long Island looked out and "saw a building on fire through his binoculars" and there was no such thing.
Fire fighters risk their lives every day, everyone was safe this time.

[tis]

Originally Posted by chachee52

Gilford asked for M and T to come as backup and to stand by at the launch. They were not on the original call because Welch is in Gilford, so Gilford and Laconia were the 1st to be called out.
When it came down to it, they made a decision that there was enough ice for the ATV, which there clearly was because they made it out and on their way back went through.
Again, just shows that no ice is safe ice, no matter what thickness around the area may be. This was clearly one of those situations, they went out to try to do their job and make sure people were safe because someone on Long Island looked out and "saw a building on fire through his binoculars" and there was no such thing.
Fire fighters risk their lives every day, everyone was safe this time.

I agree, you need to know what you are doing on the ice and even then be extremely careful.

[BoatHouse]

Would have been a perfect situation to use drones to check on the island.

Does anyone know if Gilford has their own drones?

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Just wondering...will they attempt to remove the ATV from lake bottom now, or wait til spring?

Marine Solutions will be recovering it in the next few days.

[John Mercier]

Did it go all the way down?
In the past the tires used to float and a machine would invert.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Did it go all the way down?
In the past the tires used to float and a machine would invert.

The one that I saw go past had tracks. It was a large side by side...

Dan

[Descant]

I always thought machines on the ice should have an auto releasing float with 300' of paracord for quick and easy retrieval.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Descant

I always thought machines on the ice should have an auto releasing float with 300' of paracord for quick and easy retrieval.

Good idea!

[Flotnjr]

Fan boats- known as "hoovercrafts" in this post... are the worst type of craft to operate. They suck to drive, they have no brakes, steering sucks, and they have to be launched from a trailer. It's always a last resort unless 100% necessary.

[Lake Fan]

Originally Posted by Descant

I always thought machines on the ice should have an auto releasing float with 300' of paracord for quick and easy retrieval.

Shouldn't someone be suggesting swim noodles from Walmart tied together with clothesline?

[fatlazyless]

Many adults are not capable to swim 200-yards in a heated 80-degree swim pool, let alone swimming Lake Winnipesaukee with its wakes, wind and cool water temperature.

Threading a strong line through a foam noodle, to make an improvised swim belt and tying it tight around the waist greatly improves the swimability and safety for most everyone when swimming the big lake in deep water.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

Shouldn't someone be suggesting swim noodles from Walmart tied together with clothesline?

You just couldn’t help yourself could you


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[No Wake Zone]

Maybe the towns on the water could consider getting a Sherp, www.sherpglobal.com

With the tax money that is given to the towns and very few services used by seasonal residents, they all would have the money.

[bushwack1]

It's my understanding the if a vehicle goes through the ice and needs to be recovered. 1) there are fines imposed in acordance with the amount of time (said petroleum powered vehicle) is in the body of water. My question is who pays that fine, the operator or owner. 2nd Same question who pays for the recovery ? The Operator or the owner? My thought /question is; That if the said vehicle is owned by the town of Gilford, who pays??? The operators or the town of Gilford? ( the Tax payers ??) And before anyone jumps on me, YES I understand the those men were doing thier duty under the employ of the town. But who is liable.

[John Mercier]

The department budget, which ultimately comes from the property taxpayers.

I suspect they will recover without fines.
But the recovery and any refurbishment/replacement will be imposed on the town.

[bushwack1]

Could be, but no fines ? "" above the law ? !?!/

[JayR]

Originally Posted by bushwack1

Could be, but no fines ? "" above the law ? !?!/

But...these are first responders attempting to save people from emergencies, which is their job. Can't imagine imposing any fine on these great people. Instead, let's increase the fines and penalties for the reckless civilians who keep putting our first responders in harm's way !!!

[lakershaker]

Originally Posted by bushwack1

Could be, but no fines ? "" above the law ? !?!/

Exempt from the law is different than "above the law." There are specific exemptions for government administration in many rules. Just like why you don't see registration stickers on marine patrol boats and emergency vehicles can go through red lights.

[ishoot308]

If I remember correctly, you have 72 hours to remove vehicle from the lake with no fines. After that it is / was $1000.00 per day for each day after the 72 hour grace period...

Dan

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by bushwack1

Could be, but no fines ? "" above the law ? !?!/

Are you serious? These are first responders who made an error in judgment. They were not doing anything with ill intent, or to put anyone else in danger, or to enrich themselves. They just made a mistake.

If the state wants to ding the town, that's all in good fun. But we should respect first responders and also understand that they're human. Otherwise, they may not be there when we need them

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by bushwack1

It's my understanding the if a vehicle goes through the ice and needs to be recovered. 1) there are fines imposed in acordance with the amount of time (said petroleum powered vehicle) is in the body of water. My question is who pays that fine, the operator or owner. 2nd Same question who pays for the recovery ? The Operator or the owner? My thought /question is; That if the said vehicle is owned by the town of Gilford, who pays??? The operators or the town of Gilford? ( the Tax payers ??) And before anyone jumps on me, YES I understand the those men were doing thier duty under the employ of the town. But who is liable.

The town, certainly not the operators...Come on....

Chances are the recovery cost will not be that bad and the town is insured. I doubt highly the state will charge a town fees for this.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

If I remember correctly, you have 72 hours to remove vehicle from the lake with no fines. After that it is / was $1000.00 per day for each day after the 72 hour grace period...

Dan

Yes, but they have extended it in the past due to complexity of recovery.

Basically the fines are there to punish people that sink something in the lake and make no attempt to recover it.

[Tofu]

How long would it have taken to send a Drone out to observe the issue and return back to it's starting position without putting any human life in jeopardy and not costing anything to recover it?

[John Mercier]

Does Gilford FD have one?

[Descant]

We often refer to "breaking the law" with the same concept as "breaking a rule". Not quite so. The legislature often gives departments the ability to make administrative rules which have the effect of law, but are administered by the department, not the courts. In the case of dumping something in the lake (like an ATV) the DES is the enforcing body and they can impose administrative fines which are limited. They can't do a workout if you break a law, but they made the rule and can manage a workout. DES often wants to see a bad condition corrected more than they want to collect a fine.

[The Real BigGuy]

If this were covered by Federal law, I believe the feds have the “authority” to fine the owner & the operator 20K per day under joint & several liability. They rarely do, but use the potential fine as the “big stick” to get things done, or committed to fast and to make sure commitments are met.


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[Tofu]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Does Gilford FD have one?

Not sure John, But it would not be an unreasonable request in the budget if they don't.

[Blue Thunder]

Wednesday 5:10PM

Marine Solutions just posted that the vehicle was recovered today without incident. You may now return to your regularly scheduled speculation and second guessing.

BT

[steve-on-mark]

Must have been freezing....great job Tim!!



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[8gv]

We can now move on to debating the best practices for bringing the ATV back into service.

[ishoot308]

Notice the open water / recently frozen pressure ridge directly behind the ATV….

Dan

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Notice the open water / recently frozen pressure ridge directly behind the ATV….

Dan

As noted earlier, the pressure ridge is where it went in. The recovery hole had 11 inches of ice.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00057160552062

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by Blue Thunder

As noted earlier, the pressure ridge is where it went in. The recovery hole had 11 inches of ice.

When they went in it wasn’t a ridge…it was open water about 10’ wide. It was very easy to avoid so still trying to figure out why they would attempt to cross…They never got out once to check ice thickness all the way out and back to Welch!

Glad they are both OK!

Dan

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

When they went in it wasn’t a ridge…it was open water about 10’ wide. It was very easy to avoid so still trying to figure out why they would attempt to cross…They never got out once to check ice thickness all the way out and back to Welch!

Glad they are both OK!

Dan

Agree!!!………

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by bushwack1

It's my understanding the if a vehicle goes through the ice and needs to be recovered. 1) there are fines imposed in acordance with the amount of time (said petroleum powered vehicle) is in the body of water. My question is who pays that fine, the operator or owner. 2nd Same question who pays for the recovery ? The Operator or the owner? My thought /question is; That if the said vehicle is owned by the town of Gilford, who pays??? The operators or the town of Gilford? ( the Tax payers ??) And before anyone jumps on me, YES I understand the those men were doing thier duty under the employ of the town. But who is liable.

Write it off as a "training exercise"? No idea, but sounds good to me.

[Grant]

Video of the vehicle on the bottom, shot by Nick of Dive Winnipesaukee.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18BDrYJWS9/

[retired]

Let's say you identify a fire burning on Welch or any other island this time of year when the ice isn't totally safe. How are you going to put it out? You can't drive a fire truck or other heavy vehicle out there.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by retired

Let's say you identify a fire burning on Welch or any other island this time of year when the ice isn't totally safe. How are you going to put it out? You can't drive a fire truck or other heavy vehicle out there.

You're not... Large hand extinguishers and hand tools to try and keep fire from spreading is all you can do...

Dan

[Descant]

Originally Posted by retired

Let's say you identify a fire burning on Welch or any other island this time of year when the ice isn't totally safe. How are you going to put it out? You can't drive a fire truck or other heavy vehicle out there.

First priority is life safety--rescue people and pets. No truck needed.

Contractors work on the islands year round using hovercraft and airboats designed to go on ice, water, snow, whatever. And, of course, helicopters. Portable pumps and other equipment comes into play, as it would in most rural areas. Unbridged island properties tend to be small with outbuildings rather than the large buildings on the mainland, so it is easier to keep fire size down and prevent spreading.

[TiltonBB]

Typically a portable pump using lake water and 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" hand lines would be used on properties that are not accessible by fire trucks. The time involved in the response would mean that the fire would have a substantial amount of time to grow.

The equipment would be brought to the island by whatever means is safe and available like a hovercraft or even placed in a small flat bottom boat to be towed across the ice.

[retired]

Makes sense. I guess if you live on an island you have to be extra careful about fires, since your house will likely burn to the ground. That's what insurance is for.