Welch Island rescue

[bushwack1]

It's my understanding the if a vehicle goes through the ice and needs to be recovered. 1) there are fines imposed in acordance with the amount of time (said petroleum powered vehicle) is in the body of water. My question is who pays that fine, the operator or owner. 2nd Same question who pays for the recovery ? The Operator or the owner? My thought /question is; That if the said vehicle is owned by the town of Gilford, who pays??? The operators or the town of Gilford? ( the Tax payers ??) And before anyone jumps on me, YES I understand the those men were doing thier duty under the employ of the town. But who is liable.

[John Mercier]

The department budget, which ultimately comes from the property taxpayers.

I suspect they will recover without fines.
But the recovery and any refurbishment/replacement will be imposed on the town.

[bushwack1]

Could be, but no fines ? "" above the law ? !?!/

[JayR]

Originally Posted by bushwack1

Could be, but no fines ? "" above the law ? !?!/

But...these are first responders attempting to save people from emergencies, which is their job. Can't imagine imposing any fine on these great people. Instead, let's increase the fines and penalties for the reckless civilians who keep putting our first responders in harm's way !!!

[lakershaker]

Originally Posted by bushwack1

Could be, but no fines ? "" above the law ? !?!/

Exempt from the law is different than "above the law." There are specific exemptions for government administration in many rules. Just like why you don't see registration stickers on marine patrol boats and emergency vehicles can go through red lights.

[ishoot308]

If I remember correctly, you have 72 hours to remove vehicle from the lake with no fines. After that it is / was $1000.00 per day for each day after the 72 hour grace period...

Dan

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

If I remember correctly, you have 72 hours to remove vehicle from the lake with no fines. After that it is / was $1000.00 per day for each day after the 72 hour grace period...

Dan

Yes, but they have extended it in the past due to complexity of recovery.

Basically the fines are there to punish people that sink something in the lake and make no attempt to recover it.

[Tofu]

How long would it have taken to send a Drone out to observe the issue and return back to it's starting position without putting any human life in jeopardy and not costing anything to recover it?

[John Mercier]

Does Gilford FD have one?

[Descant]

We often refer to "breaking the law" with the same concept as "breaking a rule". Not quite so. The legislature often gives departments the ability to make administrative rules which have the effect of law, but are administered by the department, not the courts. In the case of dumping something in the lake (like an ATV) the DES is the enforcing body and they can impose administrative fines which are limited. They can't do a workout if you break a law, but they made the rule and can manage a workout. DES often wants to see a bad condition corrected more than they want to collect a fine.

[Tofu]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Does Gilford FD have one?

Not sure John, But it would not be an unreasonable request in the budget if they don't.

[Blue Thunder]

Wednesday 5:10PM

Marine Solutions just posted that the vehicle was recovered today without incident. You may now return to your regularly scheduled speculation and second guessing.

BT

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by bushwack1

Could be, but no fines ? "" above the law ? !?!/

Are you serious? These are first responders who made an error in judgment. They were not doing anything with ill intent, or to put anyone else in danger, or to enrich themselves. They just made a mistake.

If the state wants to ding the town, that's all in good fun. But we should respect first responders and also understand that they're human. Otherwise, they may not be there when we need them

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by bushwack1

It's my understanding the if a vehicle goes through the ice and needs to be recovered. 1) there are fines imposed in acordance with the amount of time (said petroleum powered vehicle) is in the body of water. My question is who pays that fine, the operator or owner. 2nd Same question who pays for the recovery ? The Operator or the owner? My thought /question is; That if the said vehicle is owned by the town of Gilford, who pays??? The operators or the town of Gilford? ( the Tax payers ??) And before anyone jumps on me, YES I understand the those men were doing thier duty under the employ of the town. But who is liable.

The town, certainly not the operators...Come on....

Chances are the recovery cost will not be that bad and the town is insured. I doubt highly the state will charge a town fees for this.

[chachee52]

Originally Posted by bushwack1

It's my understanding the if a vehicle goes through the ice and needs to be recovered. 1) there are fines imposed in acordance with the amount of time (said petroleum powered vehicle) is in the body of water. My question is who pays that fine, the operator or owner. 2nd Same question who pays for the recovery ? The Operator or the owner? My thought /question is; That if the said vehicle is owned by the town of Gilford, who pays??? The operators or the town of Gilford? ( the Tax payers ??) And before anyone jumps on me, YES I understand the those men were doing thier duty under the employ of the town. But who is liable.

Write it off as a "training exercise"? No idea, but sounds good to me.

[Grant]

Video of the vehicle on the bottom, shot by Nick of Dive Winnipesaukee.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18BDrYJWS9/

[retired]

Let's say you identify a fire burning on Welch or any other island this time of year when the ice isn't totally safe. How are you going to put it out? You can't drive a fire truck or other heavy vehicle out there.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by retired

Let's say you identify a fire burning on Welch or any other island this time of year when the ice isn't totally safe. How are you going to put it out? You can't drive a fire truck or other heavy vehicle out there.

You're not... Large hand extinguishers and hand tools to try and keep fire from spreading is all you can do...

Dan

[Descant]

Originally Posted by retired

Let's say you identify a fire burning on Welch or any other island this time of year when the ice isn't totally safe. How are you going to put it out? You can't drive a fire truck or other heavy vehicle out there.

First priority is life safety--rescue people and pets. No truck needed.

Contractors work on the islands year round using hovercraft and airboats designed to go on ice, water, snow, whatever. And, of course, helicopters. Portable pumps and other equipment comes into play, as it would in most rural areas. Unbridged island properties tend to be small with outbuildings rather than the large buildings on the mainland, so it is easier to keep fire size down and prevent spreading.

[TiltonBB]

Typically a portable pump using lake water and 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" hand lines would be used on properties that are not accessible by fire trucks. The time involved in the response would mean that the fire would have a substantial amount of time to grow.

The equipment would be brought to the island by whatever means is safe and available like a hovercraft or even placed in a small flat bottom boat to be towed across the ice.

[retired]

Makes sense. I guess if you live on an island you have to be extra careful about fires, since your house will likely burn to the ground. That's what insurance is for.