Traffic Circle

[dmjr]

Well.....Last night I saw something happen at the new traffic circle in Meredith. A tractor trailer (that was appeared to be carring custom motorcycles) coming from the Weirs entered the traffic circle. It stopped and then proceeded to the right. When it turned right the trailer caugh the narrow curbing and blew out the 2 tires on the right hand side of the trailer and nearly tipped over when it happend. I must admit it was not fun to watch and I feel bad the driver of the truck. I have admit, I think the intersection is to narrow. I had a hard time the other day coming through there with a 20 foot boat on the back oy my truck. I think that shows some poor engineering by the NH DOT.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by dmjr

Well.....Last night I saw something happen at the new traffic circle in Meredith. A tractor trailer (that was appeared to be carring custom motorcycles) coming from the Weirs entered the traffic circle. It stopped and then proceeded to the right. When it turned right the trailer caugh the narrow curbing and blew out the 2 tires on the right hand side of the trailer and nearly tipped over when it happend. I must admit it was not fun to watch and I feel bad the driver of the truck. I have admit, I think the intersection is to narrow. I had a hard time the other day coming through there with a 20 foot boat on the back oy my truck. I think that shows some poor engineering by the NH DOT.

I have gone through it multiple times now I as well feel that it is too narrow for what travels that way, on a regular basis to.

[WeirsBeachBoater]

How long before it is redone or removed????

[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

How long before it is redone or removed????

They won't ever admit a mistake. This circle is a joke. A poor solution to a problem that didn't exist. It is far too narrow and a "menace to navigation"

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Charlie T

They won't ever admit a mistake. This circle is a joke. A poor solution to a problem that didn't exist. It is far too narrow and a "menace to navigation"

Whoever was involved with the design and approval of that rotary should be fired on the spot. It will not solve the problems that it was designed to solve. Total waste of taxpayer money.

[DoTheMath]

Drove through that last Friday on my way up and said to my wife, "Who in the hell designed this!? I'd hate to have to drive anything through here bigger than a passenger vehicle - esp. something as big as a tractor trailer... they will never make it". There is no WAY someone with an engineering degree layed that out - and if they do have one, they should be asking "do you want fries with that" at their next job!

[AC2717]

When it was first being built it looked large enough because of the construction, but when it was done, It through me way off. how is that supposed to help traffic when it makes you slow down to 5mph to get around it, coming downhill on that from Laconia is not an easy task with a passenger vehicle either. Oh wait you do not have to go around it, you can basically driver right through it with a big enough vehicle, yeah real safe

[Skip]

There was an article in the June 8th edition of the Manchester Union Leader devoted to Meredith's roundabout. The article has since expired and costs $2.50 if you still want to read it.

Anyway the article explained that the circle in Meredith is a roundabout vice a traditional traffic circle or rotary. They are supposedly modeled after their European counterparts.

They are intentionally designed to be much smaller than a regular traffic circle or rotary to serve as a traffic calming device.

This is the first designed and installed roundabout in New Hampshire with a second one coming to Routes 3 and 175-A in Plymouth.

One of the Engineers serving as a spokesperson for the project is a Nancy Mayville of the Transportation Department. She is a municipal highway engineer with the Planning & Community Department at DOT. You can call her at (603) 271-1609 or e-mail your questions/complaints/suggestions directly to her at nmayville@dot.state.nh.us

Seems like a nice lady....sure she could answer many of the good questions & concerns raised here!

Skip

[boat_guy64]

I traveled through it several times last weekend. What a mess they have created. I can't imagine anyone would call this a good solution. The only solution is to bulldoze it.

[fatlazyless]

Today's LaDaSun says that it's supposed to be the way it is. That it is not like a rotary from Massachusetts, but is like a round-about from Europe, and it is designed to be a traffic calmer. Tractor trailers pulling a standard 53' trailer should expect the 10 tractor tires to roll on the pavement and some of the trailer tires to track inside on top of the large granite pavers. After bike week, another 1/2" layer of asphalt will be added which will level the road with the granite pavers.

How very european......vivre le Francais!

This calls for a large pink flamingo in the middle with a changable moving sign that goes 'Bienvenue au Meredith' or maybe just 'Pardon my French'.

A similar round-about has also been completed at the north end of Main St in Plymouth that replaces the three way stop.

[Aquadeziac]

Don't know about it being the first designed and built in NH....there has been one at the entrance to Nashua High School North for about three years. And it is as useless as this one.

[OFD232]

I knew this was going to be a **mess**, The lights worked at Rte 11 and 3 abd at rollercoaster rd and 3 WHY NOT THERE or is it to distract you and "calm"Traffic before it goes in to the Meredith Black Hole at 3 & 25

[Mickomally]

Originally Posted by Charlie T

A poor solution to a problem that didn't exist. It is far too narrow and a "menace to navigation"

AMEN! Very very well put.
I wonder how this traffic "calmer" will work when there is a snow or ice storm and people are trying to nayigate it considering it is just short of the crest of that hill!

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

In general, big rigs have to be extra careful in turns (right FLL?).
Here are a few shots of a rig that merely went up on the curb at low speed. Something to do with proper weight distribution and tie-downs (or lack thereof).

[fatlazyless]

...yup, trucks are just like cars, only bigger.....hey?

[jrc]

Trucks like that are too big for city streets, they should only be used on the ocean, er, highway

We have two of those new fancy round-abouts in Nashua. I use the one near the new high school every day. They also put one in near Rivier College.

Traffic calming is the latest fad for road engineers. Twenty years ago they had jug-handles and cloverleafs, now we have raised crosswalks (a clever way to sneek in a speed bump) and round-abouts.

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que

Here are a few shots of a rig that merely went up on the curb at low speed.

The truck is now "a few bricks short of a load" ...like some people I know

[kjbathe]

I thought the best part of the picture above was the sign near the end of the trailer that reads: No Trucks

Traffic Calming... Might make a good boat name?

[Waterbaby]

I haven't had occasion to be at the Lake (much to my dismay) since February; where is this new roundabout located? Is it kind of near the McDonalds and Harts, in that general vicinity? Thanks.

[chipj29]

Right on Rt 3 at the junction of Rt 106.

[Weirs guy]

I talked to a lot of people this weekend about it and not a soul liked/understood/wanted any part of this wreck. Towns gonna be buying a lot of tires.

[Skip]

I was able to locate the press release from DOT in reference to the roundabouts.

Its a pdf file and you can read it HERE.

By the way, the roundabout in question is owned and controlled by the State, the Town has no liability here.

Good luck in getting the State to buy you any tire(s)!

[martbri7]

I was curious about in the winter time the plow trucks plowing the round about? I hope they took this into consideration.

[chmeeee]

Here's a pretty good article explaining what makes a roundabout different from a rotary/traffic circle:

http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...4-39e03b7effc6

They really are quite a bit safer than a signal. They may not seem it because people seem to get confused sometimes, but you've effectively eliminated all risk of a high speed angle collision, which tend to cause many of the fatalities at intersections. Also, the lower speed (resulting from the smaller diameter) also increases capacity. It seems counter-intuitive, but the slower you drive, the closer together you drive, so more cars can actually pass through the circle at a time.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

I'll save judgment until the asphalt is brought up to the "rumble strip" level. I went through there for my second time a few hours ago and it is tight.

[OFD232]

Ah yes the Union Leader traffic "roundabout article" It is right up there with The check is in the Mail, Hi I'm from the Federal government and I'm here to help, and Don't worry I won't Whooops cant use that one

[Rattlesnake Guy]

I have had the experince of doing a couple thousand round abouts in England. When they are done correctly and the drivers entering yield to those that are already rounding about, they are sooooo much better than a traffic light. On my return home I really longed for them on my first 15 red lights in a row experience. They save energy as well.

I will say that when the trafic gets past a certain level they don't work as well. Ironicly this results in in trafic lights being installed on the round abouts. The ones I saw with lights were big circles where two major roads intersect. The lights would only be on during rush hour to stop the gridlock when one side could not get a turn.

If they are designed correctly and we learn to drive them safely, they are a lot more efficent. I love the two in Nashua.

I fear the NH engineers are making them small to force us to yield on entry. This is a big mistake. If there are no cars comming, you should be able to zip throgh quickly.

Not sure if we can learn the intricate blinker rules of a 3 lane, 6 road circle here in the states but we should be able to handle the one lane version.

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by OFD232

Ah yes the Union Leader traffic "roundabout article" It is right up there with The check is in the Mail, Hi I'm from the Federal government and I'm here to help, and Don't worry I won't Whooops cant use that one

Do you want to back that up with something? Those are all fairly standard roundabout statistics, backed by federal research. I am a traffic engineer, and I can tell you that when properly designed and implemented in a place with appropriate volumes, they work very well. I haven't driven through the Meredith one yet, I will next weekend though, so I cannot comment on the design of that one.

My experience as it comes to working with DOTs is that while upper level decision making can be (and frequently is) extremely poor, design work in the modern era is almost always very good.

[redc5]

Originally Posted by chmeeee

Do you want to back that up with something? Those are all fairly standard roundabout statistics, backed by federal research. I am a traffic engineer, and I can tell you that when properly designed and implemented in a place with appropriate volumes, they work very well. I haven't driven through the Meredith one yet, I will next weekend though, so I cannot comment on the design of that one.

My experience as it comes to working with DOTs is that while upper level decision making can be (and frequently is) extremely poor, design work in the modern era is almost always very good.

I dont think he's slamming the article, I think he's slamming the newspaper

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by redc5

I dont think he's slamming the article, I think he's slamming the newspaper

You mean that bastion of journalistic integrity?

[DoTheMath]

If it is modeled after the ones in Europe then... lets drive through it backwards - a-la London - and see if that works!? Maybe that is what we are all missing!?!?

"Can't get left... hey look, Big Ben, Parliment - Kids"!
Chevy Chase as Clark Griswold in European Vacation

[Weirs guy]

Lets all make a deal. When the first bus full of tourists gets stuck in the thing post pictures!

...and the wheels on the bus get cut by the curb, cut by the curb, cut by the curb...

[fatlazyless]

Have driven through the Meredith round-about maybe six times, and the traffic flows right well, indeedy-do! Not only is it safer, but it speeds up the flow. I had nothing better to do so round-about I went, twelve times!

Just remember that the traffic already in the round-about has the right-of-way.

A round-about just may be the solution for the Pleasant St- Route 25 intersection near the movie theatre.

[krm]

What was the problem with old intersection? Seemed like it was only a problem on bike week? I can think of alot worst intersections that DOT could have fixed.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

A round-about just may be the solution for the Pleasant St- Route 25 intersection near the movie theatre.

Only if they design it so that it is practical.... the one up at 106 as others have stated was poorly designed and isn't going to work. They tried to cram a circle in. They should have taken more land and installed it properly.

[hockeypuck]

Just had a round-about put in here in southern CT, looks exactly like the one in NH. All the same complaints about waste of money and it creating more accidents, but such has not been the case. Yes, there has been a learning curve on the part of drivers, but it really works pretty well now. Traffic moves, slowly thru the circle, but no big deal.
Maybe one should be considered for suicide corner on the Waldo Pepper's side of the Weir's bridge. Most people don't have a clue as to who has the right of way there. Yes, there are signs there, but for some reason they don't seem to be logical. Can't trust drivers esp .first timers to follow them.

[mets3007]

The Weirs bridge is chaos bridge everyone for themself no rules you go when you want to and stop when you want to instead of traffic from Weirs yeilding letting the cars out from Weirs Blvd and traffic on 11B stopping to let them out, its not rocket science. ( end of mini rant)

[hilltopper]

The roundabout has been explained as a way to calm traffic which otherwise backs up at traffic lights. However, you go a few hundered yards toward Meredith on Rt. 3 and you hit a traffic light at the 104 intersection. Does that seem strange to anyone? It may help the traffic at the 106 intersection but won't it just back up again a few hundred yards down the road at the 104 intersection?

[chmeeee]

Its still better than having two signals that close together though.

Also, I agree that the Weirs bridge would be the perfect place for a roundabout. Queues from a signal would back up over the bridge and past Lakeside Ave and Channel lane, and the existing mess is a death trap. I feel like I have to avoid an accident every other time I go through there.

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by chmeeee

Also, I agree that the Weirs bridge would be the perfect place for a roundabout. Queues from a signal would back up over the bridge and past Lakeside Ave and Channel lane, and the existing mess is a death trap. I feel like I have to avoid an accident every other time I go through there.

Dear god, please NO!!!!

I'm surprised FLL hasn't jumped on this yet, but there was an article in the Laconia Sun a week or so ago addressing the city's request to the state to fix "dysfunction junction" before they worry about fixing the rest of Rt. 3 from dysfunction junction to the new circle of death. My wife and I often joke about making up a big green "GO" sign and hanging it on the Waldo Peppers side of dysfunction junction. I hope we wait and see how the circle of death works out before we make a new one that I have to deal with daily. I still say a lot of cut tires are in Meredith's future, hopefully I'm wrong.

[OFD232]

Originally Posted by chmeeee

Do you want to back that up with something? Those are all fairly standard roundabout statistics, backed by federal research. I am a traffic engineer, and I can tell you that when properly designed and implemented in a place with appropriate volumes, they work very well. I haven't driven through the Meredith one yet, I will next weekend though, so I cannot comment on the design of that one.

My experience as it comes to working with DOTs is that while upper level decision making can be (and frequently is) extremely poor, design work in the modern era is almost always very good.

Well My comment was more about the newspaper, it is a NH version of the Boston Herald. It was often said that if WWIII broke out between the US and Russia , the NY times headline would have been US-Soviet Conflict escalates, The Boston Globe would be US-Russia dispute ignites, Its Bush's Fault and the Herald would have been BOOM. But since you bring it up after being in a line of work where stats are used as a measure of performance it has been my experience that you can use the same stats to prove or disprove anything you want, IE There are statistics and then there are dammed lies. Federal research or for that matter any research is done to sometimes shall we say support certain goals or positions. I will have to agree with you though on upper level decision making especially in agencies where leadership has a political tinge to it is "unique" at times. Truthfully when all is said and done drivers will either adapt to it or go another way causing the traffic to be displaced on some other location. Last of all unless they put one somewhere on the lake itself I will just use the Boston Method of dealing with it Close my eyes and accelerate.

[chmeeee]

Weirs Guy, I've never heard of a roundabout causing cut tires. I think once they lay down the top course of pavement, you'll see it won't be an issue. Then again, maybe it will be a big SNAFU, we'll see.

OFD, I haven't really read the Union Leader before, so I appreciate the comparison to the Herald (shudder). Either way though, the research supporting reduced fatalities is real, I've seen local research on individual intersections in various cities across the US with similar results. It makes sense, given that the intersection configuration eliminates the possibility of the dangerous high-speed right angle crashes. Any crashes are likely to either be rear-end or low angle, i.e. sideswipe crashes, where injuries are less likely.

[SAMIAM]

You were close ....the NY Times headline would be"U.S.- Soviet Conflict Escalates....Women and Minorities Hardest Hit"

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

You were close ....the NY Times headline would be"U.S.- Soviet Conflict Escalates....Women and Minorities Hardest Hit"

Don't forget "A-Rod blamed for incident".

[imalocal]

Originally Posted by martbri7

I was curious about in the winter time the plow trucks plowing the round about? I hope they took this into consideration.

From what I heard, when they plow, they will plow the roundabout backwards! That ought to be interesting!

[fatlazyless]

...hey, over in Keene, that foreign and faraway NH town over near Vermont somewhere, they have a new roundabout....been open for five months ...and it has had 46 different accidents so far. Unlike the Meredith roundabout, it has two lanes, an inner and an outer lane that both go roundabout. Apparently, after dealing with a number of accidents the Keene Police have decided to not assign any fault....including for someone who went the wrong direction and had a head-on with a truck.

Just shows to go,... Meredith drivers are the absolute best drivers.....eight months and zero accidents at the Meredith roundabout....plus it has an awesome view of the sun setting across the pastoral 50-mile landscape!

[froggy]

I have driven through many rotaries, circles, and roundabouts of many sizes; in this country, England and Europe. Even in the one in Paris with 12 roads around the Arc d Triumph.

Meredith one needs a little larger diameter. When sitting yeilding, one can not see that a car is exiting on the same road I enter till they are virtually out. There is no way for cars to enter every other or so, pleasantly merging. A larger diameter will remedy that.

[winnidiver]

Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que

In general, big rigs have to be extra careful in turns (right FLL?).
Here are a few shots of a rig that merely went up on the curb at low speed. Something to do with proper weight distribution and tie-downs (or lack thereof).

If you look at the last picture you will note there is no curb. The driver cut too sharp and tried to go over a rather large rock. Also not helping the situation is the trailer has a spread axle configuration that makes for a wide turning radius.

[MRJS]

What do you mean! The traffic circle is great if you live in Rome and drive a scooter!! Can't you see Audrey Hepburn's hair flowing in the wind?

Just kidding.

The highway planners remind me of that country song:

"I know how I was feeling, but what was I thinking?"

That circle is not big enough for a frick'n May pole.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by MRJS

What do you mean! The traffic circle is great if you live in Rome and drive a scooter!! Can't you see Audrey Hepburn's hair flowing in the wind?

Just kidding.

The highway planners remind me of that country song:

"I know how I was feeling, but what was I thinking?"

That circle is not big enough for a frick'n May pole.

Hepburn....LMAO...classic.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

A trip to the UK will quickly reveal that round abouts come in all sizes. 1 and 2 lane are common. 3+ lane are found every once in a while. Some have diameters of hundred + feet in diameter. Some are a white circle only 3 feet across painted on the asphalt. Some have the equivalent of our highway exit lanes.

A few things seem to be true. They work well when people learn to use them correctly. They save energy as in most traffic conditions, you don't need to stop. They don't work as well when traffic conditions are heavy like during rush hour. Often busy round abouts require the addition of traffic lights that operate during peak times so that the down stream entrance has a turn.

As Americans grow more concerned about energy, pollution, noise and time wasted in traffic, I hope we can learn to navigate these valuable devices. I enjoy the time and convenience even when I am pulling the boat.

[KBoater]

Here in FL, which is one of the fastest growing parts of the country, several new roads have been built with traffic circles. The city is currently debating putting in rotaries instead of lights in several areas.

[longislander]

I drive an 18 wheeler and have been through both the Meredith and Keene round-abouts, with no problem.

The trick is to view the "road" of the circle as "cobble stone " (inner circle) and hot-top (outer circle)

I'll admit, the first time I went through either, it takes adjustment to what is usually the norm.

At the Meredith circle, a driver of a big truck needs to realize that the steers wheels have to be on the outer circle while maneuvering the rear tandems towards the "cobble" stones.

Most four-wheelers avoid the "cobble" stone circle through instinct, not observation!

[the frenchman's wife]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Today's LaDaSun says that it's supposed to be the way it is. That it is not like a rotary from Massachusetts, but is like a round-about from Europe, and it is designed to be a traffic calmer. Tractor trailers pulling a standard 53' trailer should expect the 10 tractor tires to roll on the pavement and some of the trailer tires to track inside on top of the large granite pavers. After bike week, another 1/2" layer of asphalt will be added which will level the road with the granite pavers.

How very european......vivre le Francais!

This calls for a large pink flamingo in the middle with a changable moving sign that goes 'Bienvenue au Meredith' or maybe just 'Pardon my French'.

A similar round-about has also been completed at the north end of Main St in Plymouth that replaces the three way stop.

OK so if this is a dig at France for their round-a-bouts, you ought to check them out before you make fun of them. I LIVE in France and go through these round a bouts at just about every intersection. They are two laned and definitely large enough to allow the large trucks, even piggy-back log trucks to pass through just fine. I haven't seen the rotary in question in Meredith yet as it's been a few years since we've been back home. I do believe the rotarys in Europe are more for more fluid movement of a large amount of traffic as opposed to being a "traffic calmer". (I've also lived in England and they are pretty much the same as the one's here in France - only the traffic goes in a counter-clockwise direction in England )

[the frenchman's wife]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

A trip to the UK will quickly reveal that round abouts come in all sizes. 1 and 2 lane are common. 3+ lane are found every once in a while. Some have diameters of hundred + feet in diameter. Some are a white circle only 3 feet across painted on the asphalt. Some have the equivalent of our highway exit lanes.

A few things seem to be true. They work well when people learn to use them correctly. They save energy as in most traffic conditions, you don't need to stop. They don't work as well when traffic conditions are heavy like during rush hour. Often busy round abouts require the addition of traffic lights that operate during peak times so that the down stream entrance has a turn.

As Americans grow more concerned about energy, pollution, noise and time wasted in traffic, I hope we can learn to navigate these valuable devices. I enjoy the time and convenience even when I am pulling the boat.

HERE HERE! Learn to use them correctly and they're not a problem.
In France, the rotaries are at least 2 lane and the traffic already in the circle and on the left have the right of way. There's no need for lights at the rotaries here. They work.

[snowbird]

During my last visit to Jolly Old England I was able to handle roundabouts and left side driving rather well. Thought the roundabouts a good idea until some of the natives, supported by some news stories, informed me they were in the process of replacing roundabouts with traffic lights. Perhaps they work better here with right side driving? Duh! LOL!

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by longislander

Most four-wheelers avoid the "cobble" stone circle through instinct, not observation!

Maybe because cobblestones are usually for sidewalks and roads are paved?

[froggy]

Originally Posted by Weirs guy

Maybe because cobblestones are usually for sidewalks and roads are paved?

I think this issue has been beaten to death. the center cobblestones are for the last wheels of a trailer, while the vehicle stays on the pavement.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

I will say that I was very impressed by how reliably the drivers in England would yield correctly 100% of the time. I thought that Americans could never be trusted to always yield. That trust is something we need to develop over time as we Americans learn to use the circles correctly as if our lives depended on it.

[froggy]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

I will say that I was very impressed by how reliably the drivers in England would yield correctly 100% of the time. I thought that Americans could never be trusted to always yield. That trust is something we need to develop over time as we Americans learn to use the circles correctly as if our lives depended on it.

VERY TRUE. Although I last drove in England 28 years a go, but in Switzerland & Austria 6 years ago and also 3 years ago.
I grew up and learned to drive in town on south shore of Boston where there is a large rotary; it really was second nature to drive through it: yield when entering!

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by froggy

I think this issue has been beaten to death. the center cobblestones are for the last wheels of a trailer, while the vehicle stays on the pavement.

Wow, did you totally miss my point! Longislander had stated "Most four-wheelers avoid the "cobble" stone circle through instinct, not observation!", and my statement was geared towards the fact that I personally see cobble stones and think "pedestrian", not "car". Hence the instinct vs. observation.

[longislander]

I personally see cobble stones and think "pedestrian", not "car". Hence the instinct vs. observation.

Maybe I'm dating myself (Did he say he's dating himself...!) but my experience is just the opposite of your view!

In my earlier years I can remember cobble stone roads (no not Roman... I grew-up in Lowell Mass.) but have never seen cobble stone "sidewalks".

I should have noted in the previous post that the cobble stones are ground level, not elevated, as might be expected in ornamental inner circle, as opposed to a functional inner circle!

[michael c]

I drive a ford F-250 with the full "4 doors " .The only reason I have this is so my rather large dog can fit in my truck . I would have loved to buy an F-150 but my litle girl just couldn't fit in an f-150 ...Anyway, I seem to always find my back tires up on the curb stones or whatever you want to call then ....there is not even enough room [just barely] for a big pickup to navigate through there ...they are either looking for a place for an accident to happen or trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist...what do we expect from the morons in Concord ...Need i say more ?

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by longislander

Maybe I'm dating myself (Did he say he's dating himself...!) but my experience is just the opposite of your view!

In my earlier years I can remember cobble stone roads (no not Roman... I grew-up in Lowell Mass.) but have never seen cobble stone "sidewalks".

I should have noted in the previous post that the cobble stones are ground level, not elevated, as might be expected in ornamental inner circle, as opposed to a functional inner circle!

Some reading to enhance one's knowledge-base...

[the frenchman's wife]

Originally Posted by michael c

...what do we expect from the morons [ all of them ] from Concord ,,,,concord is now full of people from Massachusetts ...Need i say more ?

Whoa! You're really not trying to make this a NH vs MA thing, are you?
It seems to me that a lot of people here may be a tad upset about that remark.

[Weirs guy]

OK, I'm ready to come clean.

When I go thru the circle of death, if theres no traffic coming from one of the other entrances, I usually just drive straight, right up over the dang cobblestones. Anyone else do this?

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by michael c

...what do we expect from the morons [ all of them ] from Concord ,,,,concord is now full of people from Massachusetts ...Need i say more ?

Michael,
Many wonderful people live in or come from Massachusetts. Many of our forum family among them. I am holding out hope that a significant number of the Massachusetts residents that have brilliantly chosen to come to the wonderful State of New Hampshire should be judged by their obvious good taste and intelligence with their first decision. It is our job to remind them why they moved here.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Besides MA seems to be on an anti-rotary bent. I know they got rid of the rotary over Rt3 @ Drum Hill. Now as for "traffic calming circles" ... I don't know. Has anyone seen one in MA ? (I think I saw some in Canada.) I wonder how calm the traffic is when the drivers are loosing their cool ?


I'm blaming the Canadians for this !

[michael c]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Besides MA seems to be on an anti-rotary bent. I know they got rid of the rotary over Rt3 @ Drum Hill. Now as for "traffic calming circles" ... I don't know. Has anyone seen one in MA ? (I think I saw some in Canada.) I wonder how calm the traffic is when the drivers are loosing their cool ?


I'm blaming the Canadians for this !

You are of course,correct. I editted it before even reading the few comments after mine

[longislander]

Besides MA seems to be on an anti-rotary bent. I know they got rid of the rotary over Rt3 @ Drum Hill.

I go under "Drum Hill" in Chelmsford, MA a few times a month and don't see where MA got rid of the rotary?? Unless adding a few traffic lights around a rotary is getting rid of the rotary?

The only change I've noticed is now the traffic backs-up and sits!!

[froggy]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Besides MA seems to be on an anti-rotary bent. I know they got rid of the rotary over Rt3 @ Drum Hill. Now as for "traffic calming circles" ... I don't know. Has anyone seen one in MA ?

Do you refer to Chemsford, Route 4? It's still a rotary. One in Somerville also has traffic lights.

I grew up and learned to drive (40+ years ago) through rotary on Route 3A in Hingham, MA, and it still exists! IT STILL EXISTS!

And I admit one was removed on Route 3 at entrance to Sagamore bridge over Cape Cod Canal, but it's a whole different traffic situation.

The Meredith one is too small in diameter, making merging very difficult and almost dangerous!

[longislander]

Do you refer to Chemsford, Route 4? It's still a rotary. One in Somerville also has traffic lights.

The Meredith one is too small in diameter, making merging very difficult and almost dangerous!

Hey froggy !

I'm 61; grew up in Lowell (adjacent to Chelmsford); have been driving an 18 for the last 13 years(including 53 footer) ( since retirement); was previously in mgt. (MBA); and do not think the Meredith go-round is dangerous at all! I live on Long Island on the Big Lake!

The drum hill rotary (east bound is truck restricted) has lights that
that defeat the purpose of a "go-round"!

Just got back today from a two week road vacation in the South with the wife, and find that go-rounds work fine... ran across quite a few!

Sometimes, not being familiar with a different approach to a problem, causes undue concern....!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by OFD232

{snip} Last of all unless they put one somewhere on the lake itself I will just use the Boston Method of dealing with it Close my eyes and accelerate.

Agreed ! Best speed to date with the Mini was 31.4159 mph. I'm gonna leave "Mee" home next time and bet I can up it by a few mph at least !

[Rattlesnake Guy]

When our family goes through the circle I anounce my love for everyone and we all screem as we go through what we call the circle of death. Good family times. So far, nothing ever happens.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

When our family goes through the circle I anounce my love for everyone and we all screem as we go through what we call the circle of death. Good family times. So far, nothing ever happens.

My guess is that death awaits at 45.000000001 mph.



During the day of course .....

[hilltopper]

My wife went through the circle on Friday early afternoon and saw what appeared to be a motorcycle accident. Anyone hear anything about this? Not sure the accident was desing-related but I'm curious.

[fatlazyless]

After almost two years of use, the Meredith round-about is a big success. It's a very nice piece of state highway design that combines utility, appearance and safety. There's been approximately zero accidents at the new round-about, and it replaced an intersection with a single blinking yellow light where there had been a couple of high speed, smash-ups.

Understand that the town will soon be planting some trees and bushes or something in the center area of the round-about. Anyone know what's the design?

How about a few faux cactus plants and black and white, hereford cows along with a flashing neon "Welcome to Meredith - If You Lived Here, You'd be Home Now!".

[loony]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

After almost two years of use, the Meredith round-about is a big success. It's a very nice piece of state highway design that combines utility, appearance and safety. There's been approximately zero accidents at the new round-about, and it replaced an intersection with a single blinking yellow light where there had been a couple of high speed, smash-ups.

Understand that the town will soon be planting some trees and bushes or something in the center area of the round-about. Anyone know what's the design?

How about a few faux cactus plants and black and white, hereford cows along with a flashing neon "Welcome to Meredith - If You Lived Here, You'd be Home Now!".

How about a big wooden indian (aka BFI) like the one on rt1 north, between Portland and Freeport Maine. In front of what used to be Levinski's trading post.

[boat_guy64]

I'm not sure about that....Last weekend I noticed broken curbs on two sides of the roundabout from some hard hits, a very nasty set of skid marks that went over the curb and into the grass towards Meredith and another set that went through the middle of the roundabout.

I saw a few close calls with Motorcycles last summer so FLL you should be careful riding your bike in the rotary after your daily trip to McDonalds.

[meredith weekender]

I was very skeptical about the new rotary when it was talked about and especially while watching construction. After seing it in use and using it several times a week, I feel i is a success. Traffic flows from rte 106 very well and rte 3 slows down enough to make it safer to access the side roads in the area. On another note though, I certainly do not feel a rotary of any kind will work at rte 3 and 25

[no-engine]

Originally Posted by boat_guy64

daily trip to McDonalds.

How can one justify McD's so frequently?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...Understand that the town will soon be planting some trees and bushes or something in the center area of the round-about. Anyone know what's the design...?"

If two roundabouts at my winter location are any indication, Meredith better be ready to do the plantings over and over again!

1) A neighbor there proudly showcased his neighborhood's newest "traffic-calming" round-about: We happened to follow a VW GTI who ran right through the middle of it!

2) Another round-about in the same town had installed a concrete monument on the roundabout's peak elevated about three feet above the roadway. (This one below).



(At this round-about).


Even that got "disintegrated" one night!

[fatlazyless]

Gee whiz...have you seen the new sign(s). They must have hired the Midnight Sign Co to go install a double-sign last night because, overnight, a new double sign was apparently installed very close to the round-about.

The nearby Meredith Bay Colony Club now has a double oval, lighted, approximately 4 x 6 foot, by 90o, 4 x 6 foot, corner angle sign.

The obvious question is: Why a double sign like that? That's very unusual and I do not recall ever seeing one before, at least not north of Saugus, Mass. As an elder care, and rehabilitation medical facility maybe they just wanted a double sign so's to cover all the angles, and make it easier to locate?

For example, for a 92 year old driving her Buick to go visit hubby at the rehab, a double-sign could be very helpfull what with her strained eyesight. Just a thought?

[no-engine]

Wonder if the sign ordinances are adhered to?

Lighted near a rotary could be an awful distraction driving at night.

[fatlazyless]

And, here's another weird story from the perpetually going round & round, NH roundabout, Winnipesaukee.com thread all about NH roundabouts and this one includes a decent photo of some big trucks!

http://www.concordmonitor.com/articl...ed-roundabout? "A roundly hated roundabout" State: Drivers need to get used to it (in Boscawen)

..................

The article mentions that the Meredith and Plymouth roundabouts were the first new ones installed in New Hampshire and were first open to use in the summer of 2007.

The chart attached to the article in the newspaper lists all the different roundabouts in the state, and what new roundabout construction is being considered. It has the Laconia-Weir's Beach 'malfunction junction,' Rt 3 & 11A, intersection at the top of the new construction list, slated for 2012. 'Malfunction junction' is listed to become a 120' diameter roundabout, while the existing Meredith roundabout is a 130' diameter.

Here's my suggestion for the Meredith and Plymouth roundabouts: Install a garden house WATER faucet in the center of the roundabouts so some local, elbow grease-volunteers can go build a decorative formal garden inside the roundabout! This is not a new idea because it happens all across countries like France, Belgium, Holland, Switzerland, Germany, Spain, Ireland and Great Britain....plus other countries too.

Both the Plymouth and Meredith roundabouts would be excellent spots for a public decorative garden and would improve the local roadside scenery for both towns by a big step. What is growing there now are some dried out, very weedy style plants that just barely survive on natural rainfall. For a tourist or university town, what do you want do see; a circle of water-starved weedy plants or a healthy and good-looking decorative garden that helps to define the home town with a garden display that shouts: This is Meredith, NH!....or....This is Plymouth, NH!...as opposed to...This is a sickly-looking circle of dried-out and almost dead perennials!

[SIKSUKR]

Will you be the one weeding and maintaining those roundabouts?I thought not.Just add it on to the already high taxes right?I say just plain sod mowed every few weeks.Waaaaay less maintainance.

[fatlazyless]

Hey Siksukr, it's obvious you must be a Republican because all you want to say is NO.

Meredith has a local population that's loaded up on the elderly and retired side; lots of folks in their 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. That's the perfect demographic for retired folks who are looking for something to volunteer for, plus there's all sorts of experienced gardeners in Meredith who would be lining up to volunteer.

All it takes is one garden hose water faucet in the center of the roundabout, and the town water system gets very close to the Meredith roundabout area. Just add water, a little local volunteer elbow grease, and the perceived general thinking on Meredith would be: "Oh Meredith, what a beautifull little town," gets a boost upward!

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hey Siksukr, it's obvious you must be a Republican because all you want to say is NO.

What is obvious is your political affiliation by all your Republican bashing.Where did I say no?I gave a much less costly solution than having something that needs constant attention and yearly replanting and the like.Unlike yourself I don't need or want the goverment to do more and more and more.Its out of control because of people that think there is an unlimited pot to draw from.You certainly don't practice what you preach in your own FLL goverment with all your Walmart talk and free coffe at Heaths.That is where I support your lifestyle of making prudent choices.Why does it stop there though?

[fatlazyless]

The difference between a Republican and a Democrat is that Republicans just say no, while Democrats go find people to volunteer to do the work for free because they want to volunteer to do the work.

Picture this: three 70-something local ladies in their high visibility, yellow & orange highway vests w/ Team Roundabout stenciled on the back, who are happy to tend the Meredith roundabout garden for one 2 hour time slot, once/week. End result: a good looking decorative display garden in the Meredith roundabout.

What's really needed is a garden hose water faucet installed into the center spot there!

[NHBUOY]

Question...why do some of the circles/roundabouts yield to the traffic in the circle, and some are yield to the incoming traffic...just a thought that was going through my mind as I used Meredith's, and 2 in Plymouth yesterday and noticed this "inconsistency"...and one more Q? for FLL...can God make a rock so big, that even He couldn't lift it.?..

[Belmont Resident]

Originally Posted by NHBUOY

Question...why do some of the circles/roundabouts yield to the traffic in the circle, and some are yield to the incoming traffic...just a thought that was going through my mind as I used Meredith's, and 2 in Plymouth yesterday and noticed this "inconsistency"...and one more Q? for FLL...can God make a rock so big, that even He couldn't lift it.?..

Why would traffic in a circle have to yield to traffic coming into it? Isn't that the same as drivers on the highway yielding to traffic coming onto the highway? I know as others have mentioned it is this way in some areas but that has to be ass backwards.
We drive out the new traffic circle on a regular basis and I think it works great.
The problem with the one in Meredith is its so small and tight that you really have no time to use a directional.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

The Alton Circle used to be half one way and half the other. The rebuilding project accomplished a consistent situation where the people on the circle have the right of way.

The town of Milford had a traffic circle layout years ago where the three entrances had the right of way. During busy times the incoming cars would clog the entire thing and nobody went anywhere.

Some traffic circles in England have traffic lights during the rush hour periods to give the yielding traffic a chance to get in.

[songkrai]

Wellington Circle in Medford and Revere Circle in Revere long time changed to . . . . wait for it . . . . traffic lights.

[no-engine]

AND now a roundabout in Weirs Beach! Will it help or clog traffic???

[songkrai]

I've driven roundabouts in England. And they are much larger then this one. By a great margin. Maybe they come in different sizes. But the only ones I drove through were much larger then the Meredith one.

I don't drive truck or tractor trailor. But I do know some who do. This roundabout is too small. Maybe OK for cars. Not for commercial vehicles. The right curbs are too close and too high. Way too many damaged and flat tires on trucks and tractor trailors. Why didn't the idiots who designed this put in slanted curbs on right side?

Those roundabouts in England are not the latest and greatest. There is a scene in Chevy Chase movie European Vacation that sums up the England roundabout. You'd have to be a movie buff to remember this scene of the movie family entering the England roundabout. The writers/directors of this movie got the England roundabout perfectly. I can't describe a movie scene to give it justice. One would have to watch such to view the falacy of the England roundabouts.

[RailroadJoe]

I believe roundabouts are designed by the NH DOT personnel in conjunction with federal standards. After all, they are the Experts!!
They don't drive big rigs.

[hilltopper]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Those roundabouts in England are not the latest and greatest. There is a scene in Chevy Chase movie European Vacation that sums up the England roundabout. You'd have to be a movie buff to remember this scene of the movie family entering the England roundabout. The writers/directors of this movie got the England roundabout perfectly. I can't describe a movie scene to give it justice. One would have to watch such to view the falacy of the England roundabouts.

"Hey look kids, there's Big Ben, and there's Parliament... again."

Yup, I've been in some two laners that are awfully hard to get out of. That's certainly not an issue in Meredith.