Braun Bay ???

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by M/V_Bear_II

Thanks for finding that link - I was looking for the full code and couldn't find it.

Based on that picture, every one of those boats was in violation. Whether they were singles, pairs or triples, they were all within 25 feet of other boats. I count at least 30. That is a major infraction, in my book. Not to mention, all of the boaters should have quickly complied - and breaking up the group should have taken very little time.

And there was very little traffic on the lake this Fourth of July, compared to previous years.

So, yes - I think the Marine Patrol SHOULD have broken it up. Could they have been courteous? I wasn't there. Perhaps the rudeness was warranted. Perhaps it was uncalled-for and the officers were simply arrogant. Perhaps they were not as rude as the OP makes it seem. But they could also have written citations for everyone there, and that would have taken much more time. So I think they balanced their responsibilities well.

But just like me you are only giving your opinion.

I think NO they were NOT balancing their responsibilities based on the date given and the amount of MOVING violations I see during that time. AND number two I would have no reason to disagree with the original post from OCDACTIVE based on what I feel was a very fair written well thought out post. This individual does not seem to be posting with some sort of agenda. So why would we assume otherwise. Of course you and I are only giving our opinions, correct?

[M/V_Bear_II]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

But just like me you are only giving your opinion.

I think NO they were NOT balancing their responsibilities based on the date given and the amount of MOVING violations I see during that time. AND number two I would have no reason to disagree with the original post from OCDACTIVE based on what I feel was a very fair written well thought out post. This individual does not seem to be posting with some sort of agenda. So why would we assume otherwise. Of course you and I are only giving our opinions, correct?

Of course we're giving opinions. Neither of us was there. And you specifically asked for mine.

[OCDACTIVE]

Good conversation and good opinions here. I am not going to go down the road of Marine Patrol bashing, rights being stomped on, etc. I have had many good dealings with marine patrol as well. This time around there were four officers. 3 of which were very professional and informative. One however was very very rude and unprofessional. I honestly have never seen anything like it. Unprovoked as well.

The picture does show that "everyone" was apparently in violation from the 25 foot law someone said? They told us 50?? Maybe someone could clairify? Also no one has addressed the initial question of: If I am there first and someone anchors closer then 25 or 50 feet who is to blame? Do I raise anchor and have to leave.?

Also, the question of a No Rafting zone. I asked the marine patrol officers about this because if you look at the chart it appears the whole left side of the bay is no rafting. If you have been in there in the past two years there are bouys set up approx. 50 feet off the shoreline. They said the bouys towards shore is the NRZ. I was told you are legally allowed to be there from the bouys out.

Now I am not trying to get people going with "the law is this or that". I am just saying what I heard. It also seems to make sense. Otherwise why would they have put the bouys "markers" there in the first place?

[M/V_Bear_II]

There are 2 separate issues. The first is that Braun Bay is a no-rafting zone between the mooring balls and the shore. I couldn't see the balls in that picture, but I believe that you were all outside of the balls.

The other issue is one of rafting in general. A raft must be no more than 2 boats, and at least 50 feet from another raft. A single boat must be 50 feet from a raft, and 25 feet from another single boat. This applies anywhere on the New Hampshire waterways, whether in a no-rafting zone or not.

According to the regulations, the onus is on the approaching boat to maintain the required distance from other boats. However, when the MP arrives, how are they to know which boat arrived first? It is probably in your best interest to inform approaching boats of the rules. If they don't comply, it becomes your choice whether to leave or to stay and plead your case to MP when and if they arrive.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by M/V_Bear_II

There are 2 separate issues. The first is that Braun Bay is a no-rafting zone between the mooring balls and the shore. I couldn't see the balls in that picture, but I believe that you were all outside of the balls.

The other issue is one of rafting in general. A raft must be no more than 2 boats, and at least 50 feet from another raft. A single boat must be 50 feet from a raft, and 25 feet from another single boat. This applies anywhere on the New Hampshire waterways, whether in a no-rafting zone or not.

According to the regulations, the onus is on the approaching boat to maintain the required distance from other boats. However, when the MP arrives, how are they to know which boat arrived first? It is probably in your best interest to inform approaching boats of the rules. If they don't comply, it becomes your choice whether to leave or to stay and plead your case to MP when and if they arrive.

Actually there were some that were inside the balls AND I actually saw some people tie up to the balls.. As I said there are some people who ruin it for everyone but overall everyone was just trying to get on the sand to be able to walk around and meet people.

While I totally understand the regulation about the 25 / 50 ft distance, Could you imagine what would happen if people tried to actually keep others that far away on a holiday weekend in braun bay?? I think in theory it is the "right thing to do" but it isn't realistic.

Also, from a personal standpoint, after getting the family ready, shopping for food, preparing everything for a day in Braun Bay, loading up the boat, leaving early to get a good spot etc etc... I think my wife and passengers would be a bit upset with me if at 945am when the bay starts to fill up I say "sorry guys, that person is too close, we better leave" LOL... Just my 2 cents.. I don't think it is a realistic option.

[topwater]

Realistic option or un-realistic option, as someone put, if your breaking the LAW your breaking the law period. So if your asked to move by marine patrol , no matter how you look at the situation you DO NOT have the right to do it LEGALLY. So weather there making you move or stopping someone for breaking the 150' rule, Marine Patrol is doing thier job. CUDO.s to Marine Patrol.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by topwater

Realistic option or un-realistic option, as someone put, if your breaking the LAW your breaking the law period. So if your asked to move by marine patrol , no matter how you look at the situation you DO NOT have the right to do it LEGALLY. So weather there making you move or stopping someone for breaking the 150' rule, Marine Patrol is doing thier job. CUDO.s to Marine Patrol.

I am not disagreeing with you that there is a law. The concern that was brought up was to discuss what exactly is the statute, and how we are supposed to adhere to it in this particular bay. Also, why the MP would take this particular day and suddenly crack down. Not to mention the rudeness aspect.

The world isn't always black and white. Discussions like this is where ideas and points of view are discussed to enlighten people as to the particulars of a situation. I have personally learned a lot from this conversation as I hope others have as well.

Also there seems to be some confusion as to how the law is supposed to be adhered to and enforced. Even what the MP's said that day is different then what I have read here. So I am not to quick to hand out the "Kudos"

[EricP]

NWZs get created when somoene complains about the rafting near them and the problems that come with large groups of partiers. As was stated in the original post a few bad apples spoil it for the bunch and such is the case in Braun Bay and other NWZs. So if there is a sudden interest in cracking down on activities in Braun Bay then I imagine someone called and complained that things were getting out of hand again. I have seen this played out on other lakes in the country so we are not alone with this problem.

[OCDACTIVE]

Very well said.. I also think from a safety perspective which has not been discussed yet. On this particular holiday weekend, if you have been there you know how congested it gets. The reason I get there early not only is for a good spot but because I know that it will fill up VERY fast. The safety aspect is when it is PACKED as you see in the picture it is difficult, not impossible, but difficult to get a boat out in case of an emergency. So I understand the need for a statute but not the actions of these officers on this particular day.

[Dave R]

When we hang out in Braun Bay, we arrive early, have fun playing frisbee and such when there's space, and leave when it gets crowded. I take digital photos of the open space on both sides of my boat after we get settled in. I have never had to show the photos to MP, but figure it'll help my arguement that I was there first by having them. We also tend to anchor less than 20 feet from a mooring ball so that anyone that anchors on the ball side of us is clearly in violation, regardless of which side of the ball they are on. We also typically anchor with the bow over muck and the stern over sand. The muck makes people less likely to anchor in front of us, blocking our exit.

[OCDACTIVE]

[QUOTE=Dave R;89420]I take digital photos of the open space on both sides of my boat after we get settled in. I have never had to show the photos to MP, but figure it'll help my arguement that I was there first by having them. QUOTE]

GREAT IDEA!!!! best thought yet on this thread.. thank you..

[jrc]

Originally Posted by M/V_Bear_II

....
The other issue is one of rafting in general. A raft must be no more than 2 boats, and at least 50 feet from another raft. A single boat must be 50 feet from a raft, and 25 feet from another single boat. This applies anywhere on the New Hampshire waterways, whether in a no-rafting zone or not.

.....

Sorry M/V but unless the law changed yesterday, this is 100% not true.

You only have to follow the no rafting zone rules while you are in a no rafting zone. A lot of people want the rules applied lake wide or even state wide, but they are not.

There are legal rafts of 10+ boats on a regular basis in non-restricted areas.

[jrc]

BTW we have this rafting discussion on a fairly regular basis, I have all the rules bookmarked:

PART Saf-C 407 RAFTING RULES
(a) In addition to and in conjunction with the requirements of RSA 270:44, no person, except as otherwise provided herein, shall, in a prohibited location or at a prohibited time:

(1) Form or allow a boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft consisting of 3 or more boats;

(2) Form or allow the boat which he or she is operating or in charge of to be a member of a raft if any part of such raft is:

a. Less than 150 feet from shore; or
b. Less than 50 feet from any other raft; or
c. Less than 50 feet from any occupied single boat which is stationary upon the waters of the same lake or pond; and

(3) Anchor a single boat and cause it to remain stationary upon the waters of a lake or pond other than momentarily if any part of such boat is:

a. Less than 150 feet from shore; or
b. Less than 50 feet away from any raft; or
c. Less than 25 feet away from any other single boat which is stationary upon the waters of such lake or pond.

Here are the prohibited locations in Braun Bay:
...
(4) Braun Bay, within 300 feet of both fish and game property lines, to be delineated by marine patrol with orange mooring balls;
(5) Braun Bay, at a distance less than 75 feet from shore, to be delineated by marine patrol with orange mooring balls;
...

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by jrc

Here are the prohibited locations in Braun Bay:
...
(4) Braun Bay, within 300 feet of both fish and game property lines, to be delineated by marine patrol with orange mooring balls;
(5) Braun Bay, at a distance less than 75 feet from shore, to be delineated by marine patrol with orange mooring balls;
...

Wow great feedback.. Only question I have is "fish and game property lines"

what are these? and are there any?

I only know of the orange mooring balls for the 75 feet from shore.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Wow great feedback.. Only question I have is "fish and game property lines"

what are these? and are there any?

I only know of the orange mooring balls for the 75 feet from shore.

I don't know exactly where the lines are, but my chart shows pretty much the entire left side of the bay from back corner out to the rocky area.

I think this law is unfair and enforcement is uneven but the law does exist. Perhaps some effort should be made to modify it, but in practice once the government gets controls of something it does not like to let go.

On the enforcement, this is pretty typical police behavior. Just like speeding, most times you can stretch the rules and just behave in a responsible and safe manner and no one will bother you. But once in a while they have to have a crack-down and enforce the letter of the law.

I don't know if this is driven by complaints, or they just feel that it's time. When they are in this mode, they are usually all business, just get out of their way.

[M/V_Bear_II]

Originally Posted by jrc

Sorry M/V but unless the law changed yesterday, this is 100% not true.

You only have to follow the no rafting zone rules while you are in a no rafting zone. A lot of people want the rules applied lake wide or even state wide, but they are not.

There are legal rafts of 10+ boats on a regular basis in non-restricted areas.

I apologize for misreading the rules and having been misinformed.

[Misty Blue]

We live nine houses down from the state land in Braun Bay. The crowds are in the upper bay from 10 AM till around 5PM two days a week, 10 weeks a year. 'Not that great an imposition. On the Summer weekends we do chores
and own the bay the rest of the year.

The interesting thing is how clean the bay is. With all of the boaters anchored for the day there is VERY little trash in the water. (The occasional 12 pack of bud lite excepted)

I hunt the Kona land and there is very little sign of human activity around. Even Human waste. Remarkable.

I guess that the Great Spirit smiles on us because we know how to share.

Misty Blue.

[OCDACTIVE]

Great post.. Thank you for chimming in. Perhaps you can help us being a local to that particular bay. Years ago it was not a No Rafting Zone. I have charts I believe either from the late 80's or early 90's that does not have the red lines on it. Do you know why or if there was a movement by land owners in that bay to make it a NRZ or was it someone else? Just wondering.

[Misty Blue]

The rafting in Braun Bay developed over many years. In the 60s, as I recall there was very little activity up there. The locals went up there to play and check out the swamp.

In the 70s a few people came and anchored. Sort of like a little secluded spot.

In the 80s things started to pick up and we started to see rafts.

By the 90s there were major rafts and maybe 100 to 120 boats on a weekend day. This is where, again if I recall, things got sort of wierd.

People who had cottages in the head of the bay and maybe some others complained to the state and the NHMP sort of invented an new thing the "rafting zone". They put up floats to limit the extent of where the rafters could anchor.

The complaints continued and there was a heated public meeting held by the state and the "no rafting zone" began. I think that it was around 96 or 97.

My take is that while we may have a bit fewer boats up there they are spread out farther.

Hope this helps.

Misty Blue.

[HUH]

I haven't anchored in Braun for years.. The doo gooders have ruined the experience
Used to be volleyball, balloon launchers, tiki bar boats selling food and drinks..Great times there years ago.
Now its just a place to get hassled by the man !