New Bizer Chart

hazelnut · 04-07-2009, 03:41 PM

Dang you are fast!! I ordered it like what a day or so ago and I got my chart today!! WOW.

Mat · 04-07-2009, 04:37 PM

Hello,
I just got the new chart at Gillan Marine. Okay I'm new but i am trying to learn. For the life of me i don't get the whole idea behind the B&W and R&W buoy navaids. The chart says generally to stay to the north and east of black and to the south and west of red. Does this mean when i approach one of these a look at my compass direction and follow actual say north east of the black and white buoy? Some folks at Gillian told me if i asked three different people from marine patrol I'll get three different answers. Any help would be great Thanks

hazelnut · 04-07-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat

Hello,
I just got the new chart at Gillan Marine. Okay I'm new but i am trying to learn. For the life of me i don't get the whole idea behind the B&W and R&W buoy navaids. The chart says generally to stay to the north and east of black and to the south and west of red. Does this mean when i approach one of these a look at my compass direction and follow actual say north east of the black and white buoy? Some folks at Gillian told me if i asked three different people from marine patrol I'll get three different answers. Any help would be great Thanks

Mat,

You are definitely in for a long learning experience, welcome to the wonderful world of navigating Lake Winnipesaukee. Generally speaking when approaching a buoy the following rules apply.

Approaching a RED TOPPED SPAR - Stay to the South and West
Approaching a BLACK TOPPED SPAR - Stay to the North and East

A little trick that always helped me when learning was Red = Hot like the South and West part of the USA and Black = Cold like the North and East part of the USA.

It's all really a general rule of thumb to aid you in navigation. It is more important for you to take your time and slowly explore the lake WITH CHART IN HAND and learn your way around. Some areas will confound you and make you question how the heck they came up with the reasoning to put what color buoy where.

Good Luck and enjoy.

Mat · 04-07-2009, 05:17 PM

Thanks Hazelnut,

Thats is a neat trick to help remember. I wish I'd had that when I just sat for the NH boating certificate. That was lots of fun.

tis · 04-07-2009, 06:11 PM

Hazelnut, we must have had the same instructor, he told us the same thing ( Red-South and West etc.) That is the ONE new thing I learned while taking the boating course.
Mat. To be honest with you, most people I know follow the chart to see which side of the buoys you go on. After you become familiar with your area you will know where to go without looking at the chart. When you leave familiar territory, you will need the chart for guidance again. Those charts are a boater's best friend and noone should ever be without one IMO. I think trying to figure out directions as you said just confuses people, especially new boaters.

jeffk · 04-08-2009, 12:02 AM

I also use the light dashed navigation lines on the chart to determine where I should be in relation to the buoy. I rarely use my compass. Maybe not the way of the real navigator but it's worked fine for me for 14 years.

Phantom · 04-08-2009, 06:57 AM

Mat --- I agree totally with all of the above. But remember one small word that was said ........ "generally" ......

Case in point -- look at Floating Light #30 (Southern edge of Long Is - North of Mink Is). Although I can explain the why -- in this situation you actually "split" two black tops. When your out there for the first time -- this one (and there are a few others similar) will throw you for a loop!

If you are as unfamiliar with Navigating the Lake as it sounds (and there is absolutely nothing wrong nor should you be intimidated because of that) try a trick our family did when we first explored. Find a clipboard and fold the map in such a way that the area you are boating is visible. As you leave the area, refold the map to the next section. The clipboard (which keeps the map from blowing all over the place) is on the floor right beside you at all times. Some here will suggest that you can do away with the clipboard by buying the "Laminated" chart --- my experiance with that is inevitably the area I'm concerned with is in the "crack/seam" and thus difficult to decifer (Murphey's Law).

Enjoy, keep a chart handy ...... and explore!

Mat · 04-08-2009, 08:53 AM

Thank you to everyone for all the great info. I feel a lot better about being able to get around the lake using the chart lines. I'm sure I'll stay out of difficult areas till I gain enough experience.The chart will be with me all the time. This forum is a such a wonderful help for people new to the area.
Thanks again.

Nauset · 04-08-2009, 11:31 AM

Here is a little cheat sheet I created in windows paint a few years ago to help me remember. I used to keep it under my chart on the helm. I like Hazelnut's trick, that is a keeper. One place that always throws me is entering dog cove on Meredith neck where there is a red top and black top marker which looks like a channel entrance luring me to go between the markers then I remember that channel markers are solid red and black.

Dave R · 04-09-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nauset

One place that always throws me is entering dog cove on Meredith neck where there is a red top and black top marker which looks like a channel entrance luring me to go between the markers then I remember that channel markers are solid red and black.

Where is Dog Cove? That's new to me.

Nauset · 04-11-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

Where is Dog Cove? That's new to me.

Sorry I meant Fish Cove.

Dave R · 04-08-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Mat --- I agree totally with all of the above. But remember one small word that was said ........ "generally" ......

Case in point -- look at Floating Light #30 (Southern edge of Long Is - North of Mink Is). Although I can explain the why -- in this situation you actually "split" two black tops. When your out there for the first time -- this one (and there are a few others similar) will throw you for a loop!

I think you mean Bear Island, not Long Island. That spot has always confounded me as well.

Mat · 04-08-2009, 03:15 PM

Nauset,

That little chart is a cool way to think about it. Like some others have mentioned I had some confusion. I was checking out near the east side of Barndoor island. I was seeing the line split two black and white buoys there. I thought it might be an error but after learning about others I guess its not. So just follow the lines.

Sunset Bob · 04-08-2009, 04:30 PM

Matt you have got a lot of good info here.The way I always remember which way to go is remember BEN (black east north)then red has to be south and west.
Just be careful and use the chart and you won't have any problems
PS it wasn't till I thought I knew the lake before I dinged a prop. It will happen

Oletimer · 04-08-2009, 04:33 PM

Here's another way(Coast Guard) of remembering about which side of red or black markers to use-at least it worked for me several years' ago and on the ocean port areas. I assume it would work the same on the lake. If anyone knows differently please reply about it. Thanks.
I did use it on Winnipes.several years ago also.

BPOE-RRR -stands for Black on Port(Left) on Entry-Red Right Returning. Of course it's the reverse when going out from Port. After a very short time you will remember the ditty.

Hope this helps.

Sunset Bob · 04-08-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oletimer

Here's another way(Coast Guard) of remembering about which side of red or black markers to use-at least it worked for me several years' ago and on the ocean port areas. I assume it would work the same on the lake. If anyone knows differently please reply about it. Thanks.
I did use it on Winnipes.several years ago also.

BPOE-RRR -stands for Black on Port(Left) on Entry-Red Right Returning. Of course it's the reverse when going out from Port. After a very short time you will remember the ditty.

Hope this helps.

Coast Guard ocean markers are differant than Lake Winnpesaukee markers.
Red Right Return will not work.

Jonas Pilot · 04-08-2009, 06:11 PM

I'm surprised your an "oletimer".
I'm only kidding!

hazelnut · 04-08-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oletimer

Here's another way(Coast Guard) of remembering about which side of red or black markers to use-at least it worked for me several years' ago and on the ocean port areas. I assume it would work the same on the lake. If anyone knows differently please reply about it. Thanks.
I did use it on Winnipes.several years ago also.

BPOE-RRR -stands for Black on Port(Left) on Entry-Red Right Returning. Of course it's the reverse when going out from Port. After a very short time you will remember the ditty.

Hope this helps.

That's a good way to end up in the rocks on Lake Winnipesaukee

As said Red Right Return does not apply to the lake.

Another tip: Never ever ever use Left or Right as terminology when navigating the lake. When I teach people to navigate I am always careful to say "Pass to the west of that buoy or pass to the south etc." Your right and left changes depending on direction.

kchace · 04-09-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oletimer

Here's another way(Coast Guard) of remembering about which side of red or black markers to use-at least it worked for me several years' ago and on the ocean port areas. I assume it would work the same on the lake. If anyone knows differently please reply about it. Thanks.
I did use it on Winnipes.several years ago also.

BPOE-RRR -stands for Black on Port(Left) on Entry-Red Right Returning. Of course it's the reverse when going out from Port. After a very short time you will remember the ditty.

Hope this helps.

The system you refer to is not the "Coast Guard" way, it is called the Lateral System and is used primarily in the ocean and waterways accessed directly from the ocean. The system used in Lake Winnepesaukee is called the Cardinal System - (referring to the points of the compass) and its completely different from the Lateral System. One CANNOT apply the Lateral System used in the ocean to the Cardinal System used on Lake Winni. Use the Cardinal System as described by others here.

Ken

Mee-n-Mac · 04-08-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat

Nauset,

That little chart is a cool way to think about it. Like some others have mentioned I had some confusion. I was checking out near the east side of Barndoor island. I was seeing the line split two black and white buoys there. I thought it might be an error but after learning about others I guess its not. So just follow the lines.

That spot can be confusing. It's just like the spot btw Bear and Mink mentioned earlier. You're splitting the 2 black tipped markers and it just doesn't seem correct. There are a few places like this on the lake where it can be pretty unclear as to what to do if you only had a compass and your friend BEN. Another, that UTS has mentioned, is the black tip off the southern end of Treasure I. It's waaaay off the island and if you were headed out of Alton Bay and decided to split Treasure and Cub, following the BEN rule could put you on the wrong side of the marker. There are some places you've just got to memorize or better yet, keep a chart handy and follow the safe navigation route (lines).

Phantom · 04-09-2009, 07:31 AM

Dave R --- your right, I meant Bear Island

Oletimer -- Sorry.....RRR (Red Right Return) has ABSOLUTELY no bearing in the Cardinal system of navigation and will certainly get you a lower unit repair bill sooner or later if followed.....

Nauset -- neat little Pie Chart!! Just when ya think you've seen and heard all the little tricks over time ...... a new one pops up ..... kudo's.

04-08-2009, 06:57 AM	#7
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	Mat --- I agree totally with all of the above. But remember one small word that was said ........ "generally" ...... Case in point -- look at Floating Light #30 (Southern edge of Long Is - North of Mink Is). Although I can explain the why -- in this situation you actually "split" two black tops. When your out there for the first time -- this one (and there are a few others similar) will throw you for a loop! If you are as unfamiliar with Navigating the Lake as it sounds (and there is absolutely nothing wrong nor should you be intimidated because of that) try a trick our family did when we first explored. Find a clipboard and fold the map in such a way that the area you are boating is visible. As you leave the area, refold the map to the next section. The clipboard (which keeps the map from blowing all over the place) is on the floor right beside you at all times. Some here will suggest that you can do away with the clipboard by buying the "Laminated" chart --- my experiance with that is inevitably the area I'm concerned with is in the "crack/seam" and thus difficult to decifer (Murphey's Law). Enjoy, keep a chart handy ...... and explore! __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!* Last edited by Phantom; 04-08-2009 at 07:36 AM. Reason: typo

04-08-2009, 04:30 PM	#14
Sunset Bob Deceased Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,701 Thanks: 115 Thanked 25 Times in 13 Posts	Ben Matt you have got a lot of good info here.The way I always remember which way to go is remember BEN (black east north)then red has to be south and west. Just be careful and use the chart and you won't have any problems PS it wasn't till I thought I knew the lake before I dinged a prop. It will happen

04-08-2009, 06:11 PM	#17
Jonas Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wolfeboro, New Hampshire is my home, 24-7-365 Posts: 1,686 Thanks: 1,047 Thanked 336 Times in 189 Posts	Red right return. I'm surprised your an "oletimer". I'm only kidding!

04-09-2009, 07:31 AM	#21
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	Dave R --- your right, I meant Bear Island Oletimer -- Sorry.....RRR (Red Right Return) has ABSOLUTELY no bearing in the Cardinal system of navigation and will certainly get you a lower unit repair bill sooner or later if followed..... Nauset -- neat little Pie Chart!! Just when ya think you've seen and heard all the little tricks over time ...... a new one pops up ..... kudo's. __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

04-07-2009, 03:41 PM	#1
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	Dang you are fast!! I ordered it like what a day or so ago and I got my chart today!! WOW.

04-07-2009, 04:37 PM	#2
Mat Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ma and Alton Bay Posts: 42 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hello, I just got the new chart at Gillan Marine. Okay I'm new but i am trying to learn. For the life of me i don't get the whole idea behind the B&W and R&W buoy navaids. The chart says generally to stay to the north and east of black and to the south and west of red. Does this mean when i approach one of these a look at my compass direction and follow actual say north east of the black and white buoy? Some folks at Gillian told me if i asked three different people from marine patrol I'll get three different answers. Any help would be great Thanks

04-07-2009, 05:17 PM	#4
Mat Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ma and Alton Bay Posts: 42 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks Hazelnut, Thats is a neat trick to help remember. I wish I'd had that when I just sat for the NH boating certificate. That was lots of fun.

04-07-2009, 06:11 PM	#5
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,709 Thanks: 751 Thanked 1,455 Times in 1,012 Posts	Hazelnut, we must have had the same instructor, he told us the same thing ( Red-South and West etc.) That is the ONE new thing I learned while taking the boating course. Mat. To be honest with you, most people I know follow the chart to see which side of the buoys you go on. After you become familiar with your area you will know where to go without looking at the chart. When you leave familiar territory, you will need the chart for guidance again. Those charts are a boater's best friend and noone should ever be without one IMO. I think trying to figure out directions as you said just confuses people, especially new boaters.

04-08-2009, 12:02 AM	#6
jeffk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,167 Thanks: 205 Thanked 433 Times in 250 Posts	I also use the light dashed navigation lines on the chart to determine where I should be in relation to the buoy. I rarely use my compass. Maybe not the way of the real navigator but it's worked fine for me for 14 years.

04-08-2009, 08:53 AM	#8
Mat Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ma and Alton Bay Posts: 42 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thank you to everyone for all the great info. I feel a lot better about being able to get around the lake using the chart lines. I'm sure I'll stay out of difficult areas till I gain enough experience.The chart will be with me all the time. This forum is a such a wonderful help for people new to the area. Thanks again.

04-08-2009, 03:15 PM	#13
Mat Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ma and Alton Bay Posts: 42 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Nauset, That little chart is a cool way to think about it. Like some others have mentioned I had some confusion. I was checking out near the east side of Barndoor island. I was seeing the line split two black and white buoys there. I thought it might be an error but after learning about others I guess its not. So just follow the lines.

04-08-2009, 04:33 PM	#15
Oletimer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 89 Thanks: 15 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Here's another way(Coast Guard) of remembering about which side of red or black markers to use-at least it worked for me several years' ago and on the ocean port areas. I assume it would work the same on the lake. If anyone knows differently please reply about it. Thanks. I did use it on Winnipes.several years ago also. BPOE-RRR -stands for Black on Port(Left) on Entry-Red Right Returning. Of course it's the reverse when going out from Port. After a very short time you will remember the ditty. Hope this helps.