NH Mask Mandates

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

We are already at, or maybe over, 50% of US adults vaccinated.

Still too many sitting on the sidelines, but they're coming around.

No masks outdoors in Mass today!

Hope so! I can see that stores and restaurant workers are tired of fighting with people (and have pretty much stopped).

I think it will be a crazy summer around here!!

[MotorHead]

Went to DD this morning in Laconia, there are huge signs on both doors and inside that says “Wear your mask before entering” yet there are a few old farts (yes I am old too) waiting around for their coffee without their mask on. I am not sure why they would bother putting up signs all over the store if they are not going to enforce it.
What is the point. Either enforce it or do not bother putting signs everywhere.

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

Went to DD this morning in Laconia, there are huge signs on both doors and inside that says “Wear your mask before entering” yet there are a few old farts (yes I am old too) waiting around for their coffee without their mask on. I am not sure why they would bother putting up signs all over the store if they are not going to enforce it.
What is the point. Either enforce it or do not bother putting signs everywhere.

Workers are not gonna confront customers.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Thanks, Newbie. As I referenced above, that piece was so easily debunked it was a testament to how much some of our forum members—and
Americans as a whole—are at the mercy of confirmation bias.

Watch TV "news" to curl up with "Confirmation Bias".

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

Workers are not gonna confront customers.

Then they should be honest and change to sign to read
"Masks are optional" or "Masks are encouraged", that way I can decide if I want to go in or not.

I personally will not be going there again, a cup of coffee it's not worth dying for.

[TKD]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

Then they should be honest and change to sign to read
"Masks are optional" or "Masks are encouraged", that way I can decide if I want to go in or not.

I personally will not be going there again, a cup of coffee it's not worth dying for.

Is the coffee is that bad ?


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[LoveLakeLife]

If you’re worried about dying why even leave the house?!


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[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by LoveLakeLife

If you’re worried about dying why even leave the house?!


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You either

• Do not get it
• Pretend you don't get it
• You do not want to get it.

What is the point of advertising for something that you do not have?

That is the question. Had I known they are not going to enforce it, I would not have gone in there. Do you get it now?

[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

You either

• Do not get it
• Pretend you don't get it
• You do not want to get it.

What is the point of advertising for something that you do not have?

That is the question. Had I known they are not going to enforce it, I would not have gone in there. Do you get it now?

You have to be realistic.

I talked to a home depot clerk once and he was explaining how people walk out with stuff in their carts all the time. They just watch them walk out because it’s not worth the confrontation. Clerks are not trained to deal with that sort of thing. So they just let it go.

They gonna put up a sign say we don’t care if you steal anything. We just recommend you don’t.

From the beginning of COViD there have been some folks that refuse to comply. You need to just deal with it, it’s like others said, just stay home.

There are loonies on the road, in every store, in every crowd long before COVID.

From the beginning of COVID I’ve chosen, is it worth it? Say I want take out (when things were really bad with COViD). Often I’d just say no to myself and skip it. Other times I went ahead and got it. We had our limits of seeing anything uncomfortable, we bail.

BTW, my wife and I lost our jobs over COVID confrontation with the owner of the company we worked at. He was a total a$$ in the beginning when states were shutting down. Basically he demanded we be there or he will take that as a resignation. We never went back. I also advised everyone in the company not to comply. Most eventually did leave.

When we went to Polly’s recently my wife was concerned. I said if it doesn’t look good we’ll just do take out. But as soon as we got there we both felt very safe. Tons of space, lots of care being taken. Was it a guarantee that some nut wouldn’t sneeze with no mask going by our table? No, but highly unlikely. About as likely as getting in a car accident getting there.

Some places might try to enforce. But I don’t think many will. You just have to realize that and judge what you are willing to risk. If you don’t feel comfortable then don’t go in.

For Dunkin Donuts just do drive up.

[gravy boat]

The benefits of living in a "free" society is that we all have choices.

We were at WalMart yesterday and the sign now says "Masks Recommended". For the last several weeks I've seen a few people on every shopping trip to WalMart without masks -- and almost ALL looked to be over 60 years old. I saw nobody confronted by employees.

There will be people who will refuse the vaccine or wear a mask and there is zero to be done about it. People can hand-wring, fret and pontificate online every day for hours about it with zero effect. No minds will be changed. No shame will be accepted. That time has passed.

The simple solution is those who are afraid should either stay home (not a fun option) or continue to wear their masks when they feel they need to do so. Luckily there are numerous drive throughs, take-out options and curbside pickup services for those who wish to avoid crowds/people. When you think about it you can coast through the rest of your years without ever entering a store, restaurant or place where people gather.

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

You have to be realistic.

I talked to a home depot clerk once and he was explaining how people walk out with stuff in their carts all the time. They just watch them walk out because it’s not worth the confrontation. Clerks are not trained to deal with that sort of thing. So they just let it go.

They gonna put up a sign say we don’t care if you steal anything. We just recommend you don’t.

From the beginning of COViD there have been some folks that refuse to comply. You need to just deal with it, it’s like others said, just stay home.

There are loonies on the road, in every store, in every crowd long before COVID.

From the beginning of COVID I’ve chosen, is it worth it? Say I want take out (when things were really bad with COViD). Often I’d just say no to myself and skip it. Other times I went ahead and got it. We had our limits of seeing anything uncomfortable, we bail.

BTW, my wife and I lost our jobs over COVID confrontation with the owner of the company we worked at. He was a total a$$ in the beginning when states were shutting down. Basically he demanded we be there or he will take that as a resignation. We never went back. I also advised everyone in the company not to comply. Most eventually did leave.

When we went to Polly’s recently my wife was concerned. I said if it doesn’t look good we’ll just do take out. But as soon as we got there we both felt very safe. Tons of space, lots of care being taken. Was it a guarantee that some nut wouldn’t sneeze with no mask going by our table? No, but highly unlikely. About as likely as getting in a car accident getting there.

Some places might try to enforce. But I don’t think many will. You just have to realize that and judge what you are willing to risk. If you don’t feel comfortable then don’t go in.

For Dunkin Donuts just do drive up.

I am sorry about losing your job, your ex boss sounds like a BIG A$$.
I hope you and your wife were able to secure something else.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by mswlogo

BTW, my wife and I lost our jobs over COVID confrontation with the owner of the company we worked at. He was a total a$$ in the beginning when states were shutting down. Basically he demanded we be there or he will take that as a resignation. We never went back. I also advised everyone in the company not to comply. Most eventually did leave.

Separate issue from covid in particular--I love that you walked on your jobs. So many people talk a big game about how tough and/or righteous they are, but then don't have the stones at crunch time.

Respect

[thinkxingu]

NPR just had an interview with an epidemiologist who said that because of new variants and vaccine unwillingness, the US is unlikely to ever achieve herd immunity.

Next week, 12+ aged people will have access to the vaccine, which is readily available to most anyone interested.

Two questions:

1. If you've been vaccinated, are you comfortable living life without a mask right now, including indoor public spaces?

2. When do we decide it's time to "let things fall where they may" given the availability of a choice to vaccinate?

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[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

NPR just had an interview with an epidemiologist who said that because of new variants and vaccine unwillingness, the US is unlikely to ever achieve herd immunity.

Next week, 12+ aged people will have access to the vaccine, which is readily available to most anyone interested.

Two questions:

1. If you've been vaccinated, are you comfortable living life without a mask right now, including indoor public spaces?

2. When do we decide it's time to "let things fall where they may" given the availability of a choice to vaccinate?

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1. I have been, and yes.
2. Getting close when there are massive amounts of appointments readily available.

[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

NPR just had an interview with an epidemiologist who said that because of new variants and vaccine unwillingness, the US is unlikely to ever achieve herd immunity.

Next week, 12+ aged people will have access to the vaccine, which is readily available to most anyone interested.

Two questions:

1. If you've been vaccinated, are you comfortable living life without a mask right now, including indoor public spaces?

2. When do we decide it's time to "let things fall where they may" given the availability of a choice to vaccinate?

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1. Yes, vaccinated. Yes comfortable being anywhere without a mask.
2. Now.

[LoveLakeLife]

I presume that by “get” you mean “understand”. Yes, I understand the point you attempted to make. I was responding tongue-in-cheek to your hyperbolic panic over the prospect of dying from buying coffee while wearing a mask. I do credit you for not expecting others to act silly so you can feel better. That’s refreshing and laudable.


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[mswlogo]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

I am sorry about losing your job, your ex boss sounds like a BIG A$$.
I hope you and your wife were able to secure something else.

Thanks. Yes we both have better jobs.

I can work 3 days a week from home after COVID.
And it’s about half way between my MA house and the NH lake house so I can commute from either house.

But damn, my wife just got a great job. Not sure how flexible they will be on the work from home part, after COVID. We’ll see.

[thinkxingu]

Went into three small businesses this weekend and, though all had plexiglass barriers at the counters, none had mask requests and nobody—workers nor customers—was wearing a mask.

Honestly, it felt pretty good.

I'm not sure I'd feel as confident in a more saturated environment—bar/ club, busy gym, etc.—but things are definitely moving forward.

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[broguy]

Simplified Explanation

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by broguy

Simplified Explanation

So let me ask, in your opinion when do we stop wearing masks?

[MotorHead]

Originally Posted by DEJ

So let me ask, in your opinion when do we stop wearing masks?

When the professionals, people with vast education and knowledge on this subject say it is OK to not wear a mask.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by MotorHead

When the professionals, people with vast education and knowledge on this subject say it is OK to not wear a mask.

I was asking broguy for his opinion but thanks for your unsolicited response anyway.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by DEJ

So let me ask, in your opinion when do we stop wearing masks?

When we all start wearing Depends.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by broguy

Simplified Explanation

On the other hand.....What about that fat guy who passes gas in the elevator after eating a 3-bean burrito for lunch? Assuming he has underwear and pants on, how is it that the "gas" is disseminated so rapidly through not one, but two layers of cloth?

[Sue Doe-Nym]

Seaplane, please don’t ever lose your sense of humor. 😂

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

On the other hand.....What about that fat guy who passes gas in the elevator after eating a 3-bean burrito for lunch? Assuming he has underwear and pants on, how is it that the "gas" is disseminated so rapidly through not one, but two layers of cloth?

water ≠ air

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[ApS]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

NPR just had an interview with an epidemiologist who said that because of new variants and vaccine unwillingness, the US is unlikely to ever achieve herd immunity. Next week, 12+ aged people will have access to the vaccine, which is readily available to most anyone interested.

Two questions:

1. If you've been vaccinated, are you comfortable living life without a mask right now, including indoor public spaces?

2. When do we decide it's time to "let things fall where they may" given the availability of a choice to vaccinate?

Statement from WHO:

"To be sure, as the agency noted, there there are psychological and social benefits to mask wearing. For instance, in some countries, mask wearing helped to prevent stigmatizing the infected.

"Still, mask wearing by the general public is not among the WHO’s recommendations. “We don’t generally recommend the wearing of masks in public by otherwise [healthy] individuals because it has not up to now been associated with any particular benefit,” said Ryan."

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ApS

Statement from WHO:

That statement is from March of last year, before the pandemic really got started. Did you know that and were deliberately misleading or did you fall for confirmation bias like so many others?

Please let me know if I'm wrong, and I'll gladly edit, but here's the current (as of their website on 5/12) WHO recommendations:

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[DEJ]

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-...-places-2021-5

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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by DEJ

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-...-places-2021-5

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Awesome! Though I've felt ready to do this since being vaccinated, I've been fine wearing a mask for others who haven't, but I'm sure ready to move forward now that vaccines are easy to get.

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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Awesome! Though I've felt ready to do this since being vaccinated, I've been fine wearing a mask for others who haven't, but I'm sure ready to move forward now that vaccines are easy to get.

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While vaccines may be easy to get, demand for them has decreased too soon. And New Hampshire ranks 33rd of states for percentage of fully vaccinated individuals. The other 5 New England states make up the top 5.


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

While vaccines may be easy to get, demand for them has decreased too soon. And New Hampshire ranks 33rd of states for percentage of fully vaccinated individuals. The other 5 New England states make up the top 5.


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Given that all signs point to never hitting herd immunity numbers, there's gonna have to be a point where we just move forward.

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[Flylady]

So now that masks are not required for the vaccinated, please remember that the rules that each non government business puts in place for their establishment are the rights of the owners/management. Bottom line you do not have to do business with a place in which you do not want to follow their rules. So please do everyone a favor...if you do not wish to follow those rules go elsewhere rather than to create confrontation with the management, employees and customers.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Flylady

So now that masks are not required for the vaccinated, please remember that the rules that each non government business puts in place for their establishment are the rights of the owners/management. Bottom line you do not have to do business with a place in which you do not want to follow their rules. So please do everyone a favor...if you do not wish to follow those rules go elsewhere rather than to create confrontation with the management, employees and customers.

I agree. It always irritates me when people clearly violate a business's policy and get into an argument with the employee. This is true of returns, dress code, masks, 12 items or less lanes, etc. Having been that teenager tasked with asking people to follow clearly stated rules/expectations, only to be demeaned by a customer, I am sympathetic to the employees who are low on the decision making totem pole yet on the front line of enforcement.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

That statement is from March of last year, before the pandemic really got started. Did you know that and were deliberately misleading or did you fall for confirmation bias like so many others? Please let me know if I'm wrong, and I'll gladly edit, but here's the current (as of their website on 5/12) WHO recommendations...

I shelved my TV set in my Dad's attic maybe 20 years ago, so my own confirmation bias comes from the same research that today's so-called "Journalists" were supposed to be doing.

In March of 2020, both Dr. Fauci and WHO were lying to us.

But—from researching British, Australian, and Dubai news-sources—I understood why.

[trfour]

The latest; https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...dance-n1268000

[gravy boat]

We will see if there a sudden spike nationwide in 2 weeks.
I don't think we will.

COVID, like other viruses, is here for while -- viruses mutate. So the best you can do is get vaccinated and protect yourself however you see fit.

Remember before COVID how so many with compromised immune systems (COPD, lung cancer and other ailments) wore those same white/blue surgical masks in public as they were recommended by docs to prevent being exposed to germs/viruses? So why does wearing those same masks no longer prevent you being exposed to germs/viruses, but will prevent someone wearing a mask from infecting you? Isn't there a barrier inside the mask? If there is a barrier then it logically blocks going BOTH ways.

I've wondered this for a year -- it makes no sense.

GB

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

We will see if there a sudden spike nationwide in 2 weeks.
I don't think we will.

COVID, like other viruses, is here for while -- viruses mutate. So the best you can do is get vaccinated and protect yourself however you see fit.

Remember before COVID how so many with compromised immune systems (COPD, lung cancer and other ailments) wore those same white/blue surgical masks in public as they were recommended by docs to prevent being exposed to germs/viruses? So why does wearing those same masks no longer prevent you being exposed to germs/viruses, but will prevent someone wearing a mask from infecting you? Isn't there a barrier inside the mask? If there is a barrier then it logically blocks going BOTH ways.

I've wondered this for a year -- it makes no sense.

GB

I don’t know why you think masks no longer prevent the wearer from being exposed.

Quote from the CDC:

Source Control to Block Exhaled Virus
Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,3-6 along with the microorganisms these particles carry.7,8 Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger)9 but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns ;3,5 which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.13 Multi-layer cloth masks can both block up to 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3,14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5,6,15,16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments that have measured blocking of all respiratory droplets,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3,9,14

Filtration for Wearer Protection
Studies demonstrate that cloth mask materials can also reduce wearers’ exposure to infectious droplets through filtration, including filtration of fine droplets and particles less than 10 microns. The relative filtration effectiveness of various masks has varied widely across studies, in large part due to variation in experimental design and particle sizes analyzed. Multiple layers of cloth with higher thread counts have demonstrated superior performance compared to single layers of cloth with lower thread counts, in some cases filtering nearly 50% of fine particles less than 1 micron .14,17-29 Some materials (e.g., polypropylene) may enhance filtering effectiveness by generating triboelectric charge (a form of static electricity) that enhances capture of charged particles18,30 while others (e.g., silk) may help repel moist droplets31 and reduce fabric wetting and thus maintain breathability and comfort. In addition to the number of layers and choice of materials, other techniques can improve wearer protection by improving fit and thereby filtration capacity. Examples include but are not limited to mask fitters, knotting-and-tucking the ear loops of medical procedures masks, using a cloth mask placed over a medical procedure mask, and nylon hosiery sleeves.


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[thinkxingu]

India, 5/20/21: 4,500 dead.

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[gravy boat]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

I don’t know why you think masks no longer prevent the wearer from being exposed.

Quote from the CDC:

Source Control to Block Exhaled Virus
Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,3-6 along with the microorganisms these particles carry.7,8 Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger)9 but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns ;3,5 which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.13 Multi-layer cloth masks can both block up to 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3,14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5,6,15,16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments that have measured blocking of all respiratory droplets,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3,9,14

Filtration for Wearer Protection
Studies demonstrate that cloth mask materials can also reduce wearers’ exposure to infectious droplets through filtration, including filtration of fine droplets and particles less than 10 microns. The relative filtration effectiveness of various masks has varied widely across studies, in large part due to variation in experimental design and particle sizes analyzed. Multiple layers of cloth with higher thread counts have demonstrated superior performance compared to single layers of cloth with lower thread counts, in some cases filtering nearly 50% of fine particles less than 1 micron .14,17-29 Some materials (e.g., polypropylene) may enhance filtering effectiveness by generating triboelectric charge (a form of static electricity) that enhances capture of charged particles18,30 while others (e.g., silk) may help repel moist droplets31 and reduce fabric wetting and thus maintain breathability and comfort. In addition to the number of layers and choice of materials, other techniques can improve wearer protection by improving fit and thereby filtration capacity. Examples include but are not limited to mask fitters, knotting-and-tucking the ear loops of medical procedures masks, using a cloth mask placed over a medical procedure mask, and nylon hosiery sleeves.


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Never said I don't believe they work. I was simply bringing up a question about the messaging throughout to wear masks to protect OTHERS vs told to wear them to protect OURSELVES. Am I saying I don't believe masks work? Nope. I've worn one throughout when required.

Since masks protect you both ways, the vaccinated should not have to wear them any longer...anywhere. Yes, there will be private business that will still require them and I'll wear them if I really need to get something inside. Because masks work both ways then those who still fear being near others should wear the mask and be confident they are protecting themselves.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by gravy boat

Never said I don't believe they work. I was simply bringing up a question about the messaging throughout to wear masks to protect OTHERS vs told to wear them to protect OURSELVES. Am I saying I don't believe masks work? Nope. I've worn one throughout when required.

Since masks protect you both ways, the vaccinated should not have to wear them any longer...anywhere. Yes, there will be private business that will still require them and I'll wear them if I really need to get something inside. Because masks work both ways then those who still fear being near others should wear the mask and be confident they are protecting themselves.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood your question/confusion. Masks don’t work equally in both directions. Masks are more effective at preventing transmission than preventing infection. Wish I could find the article I read early on in the mask debate explaining why, but I can’t at the moment, and my pea brain has shoved that info out.

Recommendations are going to change as we get deeper into the time since vaccines became available and more data becomes available.


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[Lakegeezer]

At a visit to the M'boro Dollar General today, a sign on the door said masks were not required for those that have been vaccinated and recommended for those that aren't. Most inside were wearing masks. I went without and it felt good, safe for others and weird at the same time. Keeping masks at customer's discretion seems like a good next step as long as variants aren't breaking through, but the approach is not without risk.

I believe, as does Gillygirl, that masks are better at protecting others than yourself, since they absorb potentially virus laden moisture. Unfortunately, those that choose to identify as vaccinated or otherwise immune will include a few that are contagious. Those not immune may catch a dose but it is unlikely at this point that an outbreak will overwhelm the medical system.

[thinkxingu]

I think this is a good way to handle masks right now. This was on a restaurant I visited Friday that had plenty of indoor and outdoor seating.

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[trfour]

During a Pandemic.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...st-ncna1263366

[WinnisquamZ]

Just ate lunch at Shibleys at the pier. No masks on staff or customers. It was wonderful to see smiles


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[WinnisquamZ]

With rain forecasted for the next few days it will terrifiic to have a mask burning event with family and friends


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[Sue Doe-Nym]

I had thought that this topic would be finished by now, but no....another email today, stating that we all must still wear masks while in public in order to protect those who haven’t been vaccinated. WHAT? I believe that by now everyone who wants to have the vaccine can get it....it’s readily available. If that’s the case, why must the rest of us wear masks because some people are either careless or too lazy to get the vaccine? That’s nuts.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

I had thought that this topic would be finished by now, but no....another email today, stating that we all must still wear masks while in public in order to protect those who haven’t been vaccinated. WHAT? I believe that by now everyone who wants to have the vaccine can get it....it’s readily available. If that’s the case, why must the rest of us wear masks because some people are either careless or too lazy to get the vaccine? That’s nuts.

Who sent you the e-mail? As for not getting the vax, some people are unable to get it.


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[Sue Doe-Nym]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Who sent you the e-mail? As for not getting the vax, some people are unable to get it.


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Sent by a member of a group we belong to, and it was worthy of an eye roll. If someone can’t get the vaccine for some health reason, shouldn’t they be the ones to take precautions? I don’t want to be callous, but wearing masks long term seems ridiculous. From a purely selfish standpoint, hearing/understanding the mask wearer speak is very difficult. JMO

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Sent by a member of a group we belong to, and it was worthy of an eye roll. If someone can’t get the vaccine for some health reason, shouldn’t they be the ones to take precautions? I don’t want to be callous, but wearing masks long term seems ridiculous. From a purely selfish standpoint, hearing/understanding the mask wearer speak is very difficult. JMO

Completely agree, although I am curious to see how the numbers go in a couple of weeks. My sister was at a bar a couple of nights ago. She said it looked like a super spreader event. And that’s from someone who has been in FL since September.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Completely agree, although I am curious to see how the numbers go in a couple of weeks. My sister was at a bar a couple of nights ago. She said it looked like a super spreader event. And that’s from someone who has been in FL since September.


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I'm with you--I'm vaxxed and have little sympathy for those who aren't, but I am edging slowly into demasking. Being close to a few people should not be a concern, but I'm not returning to the mosh pit any time soon

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I'm with you--I'm vaxxed and have little sympathy for those who aren't, but I am edging slowly into demasking. Being close to a few people should not be a concern, but I'm not returning to the mosh pit any time soon

I’m pretty sure those that decide not to get the vaccine would not be looking for sympathy from anyone. JMO


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I’m pretty sure those that decide not to get the vaccine would not be looking for sympathy from anyone. JMO


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Oops--I forget how literal some readers are. "Sympathy" is sort of a figure of speech or shorthand. I was agreeing with Sue and Gily that the unvaxxed should not get very much policy consideration at this point. (at least those who are unvaxxed as a matter of choice)

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Oops--I forget how literal some readers are. "Sympathy" is sort of a figure of speech or shorthand. I was agreeing with Sue and Gily that the unvaxxed should not get very much policy consideration at this point. (at least those who are unvaxxed as a matter of choice)

Sympathy is not a figure of speech. I respect peoples choice to get vaccinated or not. Nobody should be forced to be vaccinated. Again JMO. You don’t like my opinion that’s your prerogative.


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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Sympathy is not a figure of speech. I respect peoples choice to get vaccinated or not. Nobody should be forced to be vaccinated. Again JMO. You don’t like my opinion that’s your prerogative.


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No one has posted that people should be forced to be vaccinated, and no one has posted anything disrespectful, so I'm mystified by your comments.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

No one has posted that people should be forced to be vaccinated, and no one has posted anything disrespectful, so I'm mystified by your comments.

Who said anything about disrespect? You interpret and always look for issues to argue about you don’t read. All I did was state my opinion on the subject of vaccination. Like it or don’t makes no difference to me. It’s a person right to decide what’s best for them.


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[Sue Doe-Nym]

Joey, I think Flying was merely trying to explain his use of the word sympathy, not trying to start something. Please relax. If you want to tell me to MYOB, I can take it. 😇 Happy Memorial Day. 🎉💥🎉

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Sue Doe-Nym

Joey, I think Flying was merely trying to explain his use of the word sympathy, not trying to start something. Please relax. If you want to tell me to MYOB, I can take it. Happy Memorial Day.

Not at all. I do like your optimistic point of view but every time I post he digs looking to start an argument. I never said anything personal about his post just stated my opinion and his misinterpretation of the word sympathy which he obviously didn’t like

Enjoy your weekend. Happy Memorial Day. God bless.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by jbolty

There is not a hint of any science showing that mask wearing among the general population does anything at all to limit covid transmission, actually the opposite and causes other problems. Early on even Saint Fauci stated in an accidentaly moment of honesty that masks could do more harm than good becasue people constantly fidgit with them, touch their face a lot, wear them wrong and reuse them too much. This makes logical common sense and there is science to back it up. I challenge anyone to come up with an actual scientific study showing masks do any good in public. "it can't hurt" is not science.

A Stanford/National institute of health study details the actual facts. This will not get wide publication because the power structure wants masks to be an object of control as well as a handy thing to blame any surge in cases on. Never mind that the southern border is wide open with untested thousands flooding over and then being let loose or transported around the country. No, cases are up because people are not wearing masks. Of course the truthfulness of the actual numbers is another topic for a different discussion.

read the whole thing here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/


summary



The study concludes

It appears Dr. Fauci will lose his $417,608/year government job soon.

But you'd have to read Australian press to find that out!

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by ApS

It appears Dr. Fauci will lose his $417,608/year government job soon.

But you'd have to read Australian press to find that out!

Link please.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Link please.

Nope.

It's "out there" to be found.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by ApS

Nope.

It's "out there" to be found.

I did look. Lots of articles on the emails, nothing about him losing his job.


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

I did look. Lots of articles on the emails, nothing about him losing his job.


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Hahahaha! Silly gilly, don't you know ApS has ALL the inside knowledge that's fit to...find in Australia?!

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[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Hahahaha! Silly gilly, don't you know ApS has ALL the inside knowledge that's fit to...find in Australia?!

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Silly gilly…I like that!


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[FlyingScot]

Jbolty and ApS--thank you for using a citation on the mask point. I just read the link and noticed two things right away. First, the article was titled "Hypothesis" (as opposed to "study" or "trial" or similar). So the author was not asserting that masks were not helpful, only that more study was needed. Second, the article has since been retracted. So the journal has concluded that it is no longer a relevant hypothesis (because masks have been proven effective) or that the original hypothesis had fundamental flaws that were not understood prior to publication.

Personally, I'm glad I've gotten to ditch the face masks I wore for a year, and even gladder than none of my family ended up with covid.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Hahahaha! Silly gilly, don't you know ApS has ALL the inside knowledge that's fit to...find in Australia?!

Here in the USA:

March 2020. After receiving an email about the experiments at the Wuhan lab, Fauci emails his deputy, Dr. Hugh Auchincloss:

"It is essential that we speak this AM. Keep your cell phone on … Read this paper as well as the email that I will forward to you now. You will have tasks today that must be done.”

As Auchincloss replies, “Will try to determine if we have any distant ties to this work abroad.”

Hmmm...Paper?

Dr. Fauci's scientific paper from 2012? Referencing "Gain of Function"? Referencing a "Risk of Pandemic" from artificially accelerating the potency of a virus? Laboratory work that can't be done--by law--in the USA? Grant millions of US taxpayer-dollars to a burgeoning Communist regime?

There are many emails just disclosed by FOIA lawsuit. (Freedom of Information Act).

These must be damaging, as the NYTs and "Pravda on the Potomac" news-sources are silent (so far).

[Newbiesaukee]

If anyone really wants to see all of the emails here is a link to Reuters which contains links to the thousands of emails. Then choose the ones which best fit your belief system.

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL2N2NM1JC

[CooperS7777]

Quite an interesting read on the efficacy of masks conducted by the University of Louisville. So far as I've been able to find, its one of the only full case studies on this issue alone.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....18.21257385v1

[Newbiesaukee]

This was just posted in the Journal of the American Medical Association. It deals with efficacy of masks and all the stuff we are politely discussing.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...m_medium=email

The link seems to work.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by CooperS7777

Quite an interesting read on the efficacy of masks conducted by the University of Louisville. So far as I've been able to find, its one of the only full case studies on this issue alone.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....18.21257385v1

This is a preprint and has no peer review and states that it should not be used as a guide to clinical practice. This is not to say not to read it, but don’t bet the farm on it.

[trfour]

News about Mask wearing, https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...weigh-n1272890

[gravy boat]

It's click bait. And the usual MSM outlets are trying to scare people.

No reason to wear a mask if you're vaccinated.

However, if you are NOT vaccinated, have health issues or still are quite fearful then you can wear a mask if it makes you feel better.

[fatlazyless]

Marked down, high quality, black masks for sale: Plymouth Walmart has marked down two-paks of very well made black face masks from two masks/$3.97 down to the low, low price of two masks/$0.25.

This is a seriously good deal, and I loaded up by buying eight masks for $1.00.

Such a deal, and I'm starting to feel a little out of place now by wearing a mask in the Market Basket or in the Walmart, except at this low price, it was too good of a deal to not be wearing a mask since I bought them .. : :

..............WEAR A MASK.................
..............OR GO TO JAIL ................ 1918 Flu Pandemic warning posted in public locations to spread this message!

[John Mercier]

I guess it will all depend on what vaccine you got, what the protection rate is against the most dominate variant at the time, and how prolific that variant is in your area.

If it is 93% protection against hospitalization and death... 1 in 14 vaccinated would be the hospitalization rate in a severe outbreak.

Of course, being forced to sit at home for a couple weeks with no pay... that could hurt some. And of course, having too many employees that are either hospitalized or quarantined would be rough on businesses already short on staff.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

I guess it will all depend on what vaccine you got, what the protection rate is against the most dominate variant at the time, and how prolific that variant is in your area.

If it is 93% protection against hospitalization and death... 1 in 14 vaccinated would be the hospitalization rate in a severe outbreak.

Of course, being forced to sit at home for a couple weeks with no pay... that could hurt some. And of course, having too many employees that are either hospitalized or quarantined would be rough on businesses already short on staff.

That's not quite right on the numbers--93% efficacy in this context means that your likelihood of hospitalization is only 7% of the likelihood that an unvaxxed person has. So if an unvaxxed person has a 1 in 10 chance of hospitalization (just for example), then a vaxxed person would have only a 1 in 140 chance. Alternatively--if half of the population is vaccinated, then 13 out of every 14 people in the hospital would be unvaxxed. Get vaxxed!

[John Mercier]

Makes sense.

Israel is reporting lots of breakthroughs with Delta and a new Delta Plus strain.

[trfour]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dr...edgdhp&pc=U531

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by trfour

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dr...edgdhp&pc=U531

Constant links with no messages. As a public service, how about you read those articles and tell us what they say?

[John Mercier]

The article is an interview with Dr. Fauci, basically discussing his opinion that once the vaccine(s) receive full FDA approval businesses/etc will change to a policy of mandates for their employees to get the vaccine(s).

[garysanfran]

If you look on the upper part of your left or right arm, you may see a mark I thought we all, in the USA, have...Smallpox vaccine from our youth. Wasn't that mandated to attend public schools?

I also remember drinking polio vaccines from a little paper cup. Just came into school one day and we ALL had a cup on our desks. No parental notification, nor approval. This was in Massachusetts.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

If you look on the upper part of your left or right arm, you may see a mark I thought we all, in the USA, have...Smallpox vaccine from our youth. Wasn't that mandated to attend public schools?

I also remember drinking polio vaccines from a little paper cup. Just came into school one day and we ALL had a cup on our desks. No parental notification, nor approval. This was in Massachusetts.

Vaccine requirements (with certain exemptions) to attend school are the norm. Without igniting a forum firestorm, this is primarily why the Covid vaccination resistance is aberrant in its ferocity and scope. It is not basically medical.

https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/immuniz...hools20-21.pdf

The above link is for NH.

[John Mercier]

Those were FDA approved. The current vaccines are under Emergency Use Authority.

When it changes to FDA approved is when they expect the mandates.

Currently, it isn't authorized for anyone under 12... so it will not be like the smallpox and polio vaccines.

[Newbiesaukee]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Those were FDA approved. The current vaccines are under Emergency Use Authority.

When it changes to FDA approved is when they expect the mandates.

Currently, it isn't authorized for anyone under 12... so it will not be like the smallpox and polio vaccines.

Strictly speaking, you are correct.

If so, then FDA approval should persuade a number of hesitators to vaccinate.

We’ll see.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

Vaccine requirements (with certain exemptions) to attend school are the norm. Without igniting a forum firestorm, this is primarily why the Covid vaccination resistance is aberrant in its ferocity and scope. It is not basically medical. The above link is for NH.

Another thing that is very, very aberrant is how many FRIENDS Covid-19 has in the U.S. Nowhere else in the world do you find so many people creating ideal conditions for the spread of a lethal disease.

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

If you look on the upper part of your left or right arm, you may see a mark I thought we all, in the USA, have...Smallpox vaccine from our youth. Wasn't that mandated to attend public schools?

I also remember drinking polio vaccines from a little paper cup. Just came into school one day and we ALL had a cup on our desks. No parental notification, nor approval. This was in Massachusetts.

I think that's because people believed the truth of what they saw with their own eyes: people dying. They didn't call that fake news.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

Vaccine requirements (with certain exemptions) to attend school are the norm. Without igniting a forum firestorm, this is primarily why the Covid vaccination resistance is aberrant in its ferocity and scope. It is not basically medical. https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/immuniz...hools20-21.pdf The above link is for NH.

A friend sent me a link featuring Dr. Dan Stock, MD, addressing an Indiana school board. The video takes six minutes to watch, but this must be the fastest-talking doctor in the US!
https://tinyurl.com/956zspru

I don't seem to have any difficulty understanding his medical position, but was wondering what he might have said that could be "aberrant". (But he does say the CDC with its 21,000 employees, are executing a wrong-headed program, which has been mindlessly copied by Indiana's Health Service).

Many medical doctors who speak "aberrantly" on this subject are de-platformed or otherwise blocked by Google, Linked-In, and/or Twitter. What possible factor, besides "monied-interests" could be responsible? (I learned today that even long-standing and resilient MA resident, Howie Carr has been censored from YouTube).

In disclosure:

1) I am vaccinated with J&J.
2) Upon advice of my brokerage-house, I bought stock this June in each of the three US vaccine-makers. (However, as above, I intend to express thoughts critical of "emergency" Covid-19 vaccines).

[John Mercier]

The platforms are a business. They aren't into politics.
So if it causes problems for their advertisers... it will be blocked regardless of what it is.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by SailinAway

Another thing that is very, very aberrant is how many FRIENDS Covid-19 has in the U.S. Nowhere else in the world do you find so many people creating ideal conditions for the spread of a lethal disease.

I heard that the most reluctant Americans left are refreshed with the reminders of "The Tuskegee Airmen".

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Those were FDA approved. The current vaccines are under Emergency Use Authority.

When it changes to FDA approved is when they expect the mandates.

Currently, it isn't authorized for anyone under 12... so it will not be like the smallpox and polio vaccines.

Apparently, that can change:

"...allowing individuals 11 years of age and older to consent to his or her own immunization with a COVID-19 vaccine under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA), without the approval or consent of a parent or guardian".

https://vax.phila.gov/index.php/noti...fizer-vaccine/

Y'know how smart those 11-years old kids are. 10-year-olds, left out, are irate.

Originally Posted by John Mercier

The platforms are a business. They aren't into politics. So if it causes problems for their advertisers... it will be blocked regardless of what it is.

Unfortunately, only government knows what the truth is.

Y'know what it's called when business allies with government?

To learn from history:
"...he made the trains run on time..."
—Ol' what'z his name...

[WinnisquamZ]

https://granitegrok.com/blog/2021/08...ndates-edition


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[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by ApS

I heard that the most reluctant Americans left are refreshed with the reminders of "The Tuskegee Airmen".



Apparently, that can change:


https://vax.phila.gov/index.php/noti...fizer-vaccine/

Y'know how smart those 11-years old kids are. 10-year-olds, left out, are irate.


Unfortunately, only government knows what the truth is.

Y'know what it's called when business allies with government?

To learn from history:
"...he made the trains run on time..."
—Ol' what'z his name...

Business isn't allying with government... Business is allying with their actual customers... you know... the people that pay the bills. We call that CAPITALISM.

And the Tuskegee Airmen were denied a cure for a disease...

But if you are claiming that ''Operation Warp Speed'' was FASCISM... then call it what you must.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Business isn't allying with government... Business is allying with their actual customers... you know... the people that pay the bills. We call that CAPITALISM.

And the Tuskegee Airmen were denied a cure for a disease...

But if you are claiming that ''Operation Warp Speed'' was *******... then call it what you must.

I'm trying hard to keep my responses understandable without using actual trigger words, such as what appears in your last sentence. Suggesting that be edited-out.

My cardiologist, now retired, has been active in advocacy of effective and cheap Ivermectin. (As previously noted, I'm into Big Pharma, which has no interest in such a penniless cure).

Now, suppose Dr. Boros had been "flagged" at his Facebook page--or worse--put on suspension.

BTW: Some Governors have forbidden the use of the penniless treatment using Ivermectin. Sound right to you?

Y'know he'd be joining a U.S. Senator on Facebook suspension, so we can't glean anything from his experience as an MD--caught up in a pandemic. Recently, he was extremely critical of Dr. Fauci at a Senate hearing, so now he's in the Facebook penalty box. Sound right to you?

Now, for "Operation Warp Speed", the treatments were already long-stored for use. It was merely opening the door to "emergency" distribution that remained.

Are the animal trials finished?

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ApS

I'm trying hard to keep my responses understandable without using actual trigger words, such as what appears in your last sentence. Suggesting that be edited-out.

My cardiologist, now retired, has been active in advocacy of effective and cheap Ivermectin. (As previously noted, I'm into Big Pharma, which has no interest in such a penniless cure).

Now, suppose Dr. Boros had been "flagged" at his Facebook page--or worse--put on suspension.

BTW: Some Governors have forbidden the use of the penniless treatment using Ivermectin. Sound right to you?

Y'know he'd be joining a U.S. Senator on Facebook suspension, so we can't glean anything from his experience as an MD--caught up in a pandemic. Recently, he was extremely critical of Dr. Fauci at a Senate hearing, so now he's in the Facebook penalty box. Sound right to you?

Now, for "Operation Warp Speed", the treatments were already long-stored for use. It was merely opening the door to "emergency" distribution that remained.

Are the animal trials finished?

Tuskegee was a trigger word.

Nobody really paying attention cares what a cardiologist or any of your quack references thinks about infectious disease.

Governors have no control over what doctors prescribe.

Operation Warp Speed has saved millions of people with vaccines that did not exist before.

People who use Facebook instead of newspapers are are likely to end up full of misinformation...as you've illustrated incredibly well.

[John Mercier]

He asked me what it was when government and business ally.
He knew what he was posturing about... just thought by not using the word that he inferences would not be understood.

By the way, Operation Warp Speed really did nothing.
The science could not be sped; and Pfizer... the first out... only got a pre-order should it produce an effective vaccine. It did not get funding prior.

So even without Operation Warp Speed, Pfizer would have produced the vaccine, met the EUA requirements (actually exceeded them by quite a bit) and sold the vaccine.
Without the pre-buy, it would have simple meant the US had to wait in a line ahead of others. But since the vaccine requires unique distribution... most other countries would not, and still cannot, effectively use the supply available.

Neither political party gets credit...

There was no ''long store'' of the vaccine. And an EUA is not that unique, they also did for the 2009 Swine Flu pandemic... though no vaccine was developed, some of the tech used for this one was.

As for the FDA under the last Administration, it also issued an EUA for HCQ, and had to later revoke that one.

The law change in 2013 made the difference on how many different items received EUA during this emergency.

Both parties took the time to realize in 2013 we needed a faster approach to a pandemic, and during this one... both parties - depending on which was sitting in power - have worked against getting the vaccines into arms.

Thanks to the scientists, not so much the politicians.

[Newbiesaukee]

I’m having some difficulty following the conversation.

The Tuskegee Airmen and the Tuskegee Experiment are totally different but are important for very different reasons. I’m not sure why this was brought up but the confusion is a paradigm for the communication issues that go way beyond the Forum.

Facts still matter.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

He asked me what it was when government and business ally.
He knew what he was posturing about... just thought by not using the word that he inferences would not be understood.

By the way, Operation Warp Speed really did nothing.
The science could not be sped; and Pfizer... the first out... only got a pre-order should it produce an effective vaccine. It did not get funding prior.

So even without Operation Warp Speed, Pfizer would have produced the vaccine, met the EUA requirements (actually exceeded them by quite a bit) and sold the vaccine.
Without the pre-buy, it would have simple meant the US had to wait in a line ahead of others. But since the vaccine requires unique distribution... most other countries would not, and still cannot, effectively use the supply available.

Neither political party gets credit...

There was no ''long store'' of the vaccine. And an EUA is not that unique, they also did for the 2009 Swine Flu pandemic... though no vaccine was developed, some of the tech used for this one was.

As for the FDA under the last Administration, it also issued an EUA for HCQ, and had to later revoke that one.

The law change in 2013 made the difference on how many different items received EUA during this emergency.

Both parties took the time to realize in 2013 we needed a faster approach to a pandemic, and during this one... both parties - depending on which was sitting in power - have worked against getting the vaccines into arms.

Thanks to the scientists, not so much the politicians.

The year 2013 was pivotal: It was then that Dr. Fauci wrote that, "The risk of pandemic was worth it in order to fund 'Gain of Function' research". Back when I was in college ROTC, we would have called such research by a known enemy, Biological Warfare. Helping to fund it within a nation ('way over there') would be treasonous! But today is a different "woke"nation.

But we wouldn't have known about "the risk of pandemic" without the release of FOIA email exchanges between Dr. Fauci and his friends in D.C. swamp-bureaucracies. (Fortunately there weren't 30,000 of them).

Originally Posted by Newbiesaukee

I’m having some difficulty following the conversation.

The Tuskegee Airmen and the Tuskegee Experiment are totally different but are important for very different reasons. I’m not sure why this was brought up but the confusion is a paradigm for the communication issues that go way beyond the Forum.

Facts still matter.

Overlooking the emoticon?

"Tuskegee Airmen ( )" was to show from where the "communication issues" had originated.

I caught at least two forum members with my accurate quote! Proper Googling of the quote will assist in resolving your quandary.

"Tuskegee Airman" wasn't as much a trigger word as it was a "phrase-pun". Tuskegee Airmen referenced both WWII heroes and the wrongly-phrased assertion of someone we look to for the clear-headed thinking we demand from leadership.

Operation Warp Speed: Getting the facts straight on OWS...

The media echoed general skepticism about OWS in the Spring of 2020. Vanity Fair in its May 28, 2020 edition characterized OWS "as dangerous and likely to fail." CNN complained that OWS neglected "tried and true" procedures for vaccine development in favor of new and untested methods. A New York Times article dated April 30, 2020 somberly states: "Our record for developing an entirely new vaccine is at least four years - more time than the public or the economy can tolerate social-distancing orders."

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...warp-spGoogle?

Maybe the printed source should be "flagged" and "deplatformed" by Google?

[John Mercier]

Tuskegee was not where it originated.

The implication of the 1976 Swine Flu vaccine is where the hesitation began. Tuskegee had nothing to do with it.

And both sides of the political aisle has played that game.

[ApS]

Look...! A Squirrel...

"Tuskegee Airmen" was a ham-fisted reference--originating from a DC news conference--to "vaccination hestitancy" among minorities.

Listen at C-Span.

[John Mercier]

So explain why you have vaccine hesitancy in NH... is it due to our extremely large minority resident population?

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...c99825990.html

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by ApS

Look...! A Squirrel...

"Tuskegee Airmen" was a ham-fisted reference--originating from a DC news conference--to "vaccination hestitancy" among minorities.

Listen at C-Span.

Yes--I knew that's what you meant when I called you out. As you so often do when discussing vaccines, you introduce all sorts of irrelevant, inflammatory, false stuff, such as implying that the problem is Black people.

Sure, there are some Black people who cant get past injustices out of their heads long enough to get vaccinated. I find this idiotic. But pick any newspaper any day, and you'll see the leaders of the anti vax movement are typically white, conservative, southern. I find these guys idiotic too.

Let's leave race out of it.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

So explain why you have vaccine hesitancy in NH... is it due to our extremely large minority resident population?

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...c99825990.html

I guess it's the state motto, "live free or die". Most would rather die than than get the vaccine.