Ames Farm

[whosnext8302]

Does anyone have any info on them? I alway get my application for rental in Febuary to pay the deposit the first of march , I've tried to e-mail and call but have not heard from them .

[Mr. V]

I haven't heard anything new, and would also like to know the latest on the continuing saga. Will they stay, or will they sell? Any update on the land use issues?

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

I don't know the answers to those questions but I did get this piece of information from a coworker.

"i went up to winni to check the lake conditions, stopped by A.J.'S for some lures. after talking with A.J, the topic of boat ramp sites came up and he told me he heard ames had been closed, i was in total dis belief. is this even possible ? so i took a ride over to ames. IN BIG BOLD LETTERS HANGS A SIGN " BOAT RAMP CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC"..PER ORDER OF TOWN OF GILFORD. WOW!..i spoke to the folks over at ames, and they said we can help them re open possibly by calling the town of gilford selectman..i know i used that ramp a ton, and know i ve seen hundred others there, please "HELP RE OPEN AMES BOAT RAMPS. how can the town take away rights to waters. if the landowner allows the use of there land , so that we as sportsman may enjoy the waters of the state, something smells rotten here.. any opinions on this.."

The above post came from the www.fishlakewinni.com message board by a poster named lunkerhunter. This is OUTRAGEOUS!! One of the few remaining boat ramps open to the public that actually has AMPLE parking onsite (as opposed to parking half a mile [or more] away) and the town closes it!!

I know Ames Farm had done some things without proper permits but this really is going too far!! Who's behind this?? What's the real reason for shutting down those ramps? What's the justification? Is this just another attempt to keep boaters that don't own property on the lake off of it? Where are we supposed to launch from now?? The state doesn't provide public access to the lake so this was the next best thing and now THAT'S been taken away!!

Anyone that uses Ames Farm for launching their boat (now or in the past) needs to contact the Gilford selectman and complain about this action! Those ramps need to be re-opened so people that trailer a boat to the lake (like myself) have a place to launch!!

Here's a link (http://www.gilfordnh.org/Public_Docu...065?textPage=1) to the minutes of the latest Zoning Board of Adjustment hearing involving Ames Farm Inn that I could find on their website; it's from 9/23/2008. It seems odd to me that there's nothing more recent that explains the closing of the boat launch ramps.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Here's a link (http://www.gilfordnh.org/Public_Docu...065?textPage=1) to the minutes of the latest Zoning Board of Adjustment hearing involving Ames Farm Inn that I could find on their website; it's from 9/23/2008. It seems odd to me that there's nothing more recent that explains the closing of the boat launch ramps.

From the ZBA document:

"At this time, Attorney Bordeau summarized the evidence presented. The 1988 photo does not show intense use, because at that time, the boat launching and storage was an accessory use. This use had to be in existence in 1962 to be considered a grandfathered use. Since there is no evidence of use in the 1970’s and 1980’s, it is reasonable to assume that the use did not exist in 1962. The 1988 Site Plan was intended to be used as a baseline plan in 2007; however, it was never approved. Attorney Bordeau thanked the members of the public in attendance and urged the Zoning Board to overturn the Planning Board approval in accordance with the determination that the hotel/inn is the principal use of the property."

I know I have pictures of Ames Farm in the 1970's and early 1980's which show both boat storage and use of the ramp. I would suggest anyone with similar photographs to contact Peter or Peggy Ames to offer them as evidence in any further hearings.

And how is it that Attorney Stephen Nix can use data which he acquired while working for Ames Farm in 1988 against them in this case?

[RLW]

Originally Posted by Rose

From the ZBA document:

"At this time, Attorney Bordeau summarized the evidence presented. The 1988 photo does not show intense use, because at that time, the boat launching and storage was an accessory use. This use had to be in existence in 1962 to be considered a grandfathered use. Since there is no evidence of use in the 1970’s and 1980’s, it is reasonable to assume that the use did not exist in 1962. The 1988 Site Plan was intended to be used as a baseline plan in 2007; however, it was never approved. Attorney Bordeau thanked the members of the public in attendance and urged the Zoning Board to overturn the Planning Board approval in accordance with the determination that the hotel/inn is the principal use of the property."

I know I have pictures of Ames Farm in the 1970's and early 1980's which show both boat storage and use of the ramp. I would suggest anyone with similar photographs to contact Peter or Peggy Ames to offer them as evidence in any further hearings.

And how is it that Attorney Stephen Nix can use data which he acquired while working for Ames Farm in 1988 against them in this case?

I'm not sure that I'm reading this right, but doesn't it say that they were NOT grandfathered as Ames claim to be as the boat launching and storage was not in business 1962 or before therefore can not be used as such unless it is approved by the town which it wasn't.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by RLW

I'm not sure that I'm reading this right, but doesn't it say that they were NOT grandfathered as Ames claim to be as the boat launching and storage was not in business 1962 or before therefore can not be used as such unless it is approved by the town which it wasn't.

Yes, that pretty much sums it up.


I wonder what the lawyerly definition of "intense" vs "accesory" use is ?

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Rose

And how is it that Attorney Stephen Nix can use data which he acquired while working for Ames Farm in 1988 against them in this case?

I'm glad you pointed that out, I thought I was misunderstanding what I was reading!! It almost sounds like a conflict of interest but I suppose if it's documented data, then it isn't a conflict but it does seem odd that someone that did work FOR Ames Farm would now use the info he collected in 1988 to put them out of business!! I'm wondering if Nix is one of the neighbors that filed the initial complaints about Ames Farm in 2007?

I still think there's something rotten going on here that isn't public knowledge.........yet! I have a co-worker that was using Ames Farm 20+ years ago to launch and park his truck/trailer for the day for a fee; I've been doing exactly that for the past 10 years! You can't tell me the town didn't know this was going on until just 2 years ago!!!!!

As of right now, I don't know where I'm going to be able to launch this year.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by RLW

I'm not sure that I'm reading this right, but doesn't it say that they were NOT grandfathered as Ames claim to be as the boat launching and storage was not in business 1962 or before therefore can not be used as such unless it is approved by the town which it wasn't.

But their assumption in the quote is that because they have no photos of such use in the 70's or 80's then it's likely that use didn't occur before 1962. Well, I DO have photos of such use in the 70's and 80's, so by their logic, it's possible that it also occurred before 1962. My basic point was, check your old photos to see if there's a boat ramp or storage in any of them...there may be proof out there somewhere that the ramp was there in the early 60's.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Rose, I think the point that needs to be proven is that there was usage as a boat storage and launching facility as a primary purpose, not just that the ramps were there in 1962.

They're saying the difference is the ramps were there in 1962 but only as an accessory to the cottage renters bringing their own boats to launch, as opposed to someone like me trailering in from out-of-town to launch and park my truck/trailer for the day for a fee (that would be the primary use they're referring to in the minutes).

That being said, I certainly hope your pictures can prove in some way that the site was being used as a boat storage facility.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Rose, I think the point that needs to be proven is that there was usage as a boat storage and launching facility as a primary purpose, not just that the ramps were there in 1962.

They're saying the difference is the ramps were there in 1962 but only as an accessory to the cottage renters bringing their own boats to launch, as opposed to someone like me trailering in from out-of-town to launch and park my truck/trailer for the day for a fee (that would be the primary use they're referring to in the minutes).

That being said, I certainly hope your pictures can prove in some way that the site was being used as a boat storage facility.

I guess it's the wording that is unclear...is it the intense use that had to be there before 1962 or the accessory use? The phrase "This use" comes right after "accessory use." And if accessory use is defined as guests only, while intense use is the general public, then it definitely was intense use back in 1988.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

I'm glad you pointed that out, I thought I was misunderstanding what I was reading!! It almost sounds like a conflict of interest but I suppose if it's documented data, then it isn't a conflict but it does seem odd that someone that did work FOR Ames Farm would now use the info he collected in 1988 to put them out of business!! I'm wondering if Nix is one of the neighbors that filed the initial complaints about Ames Farm in 2007?

His mother is the closest neighbor in the Nix family with a place on Dinsmoor Point Rd. They were part of the original complainants, but were the only ones contesting the Planning Board's approval in July of last year of the as-built plan submitted by Ames Farm. The two families have known each other for decades.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Rose

I guess it's the wording that is unclear...is it the intense use that had to be there before 1962 or the accessory use? The phrase "This use" comes right after "accessory use." And if accessory use is defined as guests only, while intense use is the general public, then it definitely was intense use back in 1988.

IF I'm understanding it correctly, I think they need to prove the "intense use" in 1962 or before. The "accessory use" doesn't appear to be in question as it apparently was expected to be used by guests staying at the Inn.

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

IF I'm understanding it correctly, I think they need to prove the "intense use" in 1962 or before. The "accessory use" doesn't appear to be in question as it apparently was expected to be used by guests staying at the Inn.

I think there will be a huge difference in "intense use" in today's world vs. "intense use" back in the 1960's. In the 1960's there were relatively few power boats on the lake compared to today. Therefore ten or twenty trailers back then might be argued as "intense use", at least for the era.

I wish everyone good luck in getting this new restriction overturned. I smell a rat here!

R2B

[Rose]

I guess since the use of the past 40+ years is the only use I know (i.e. for public launching), I automatically think of it as an allowed use. But leave it to the lawyers to come up with the quibbling verbiage.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Rose

I guess since the use of the past 40+ years is the only use I know (i.e. for public launching), I automatically think of it as an allowed use. But leave it to the lawyers to come up with the quibbling verbiage.

Yet another reason I don't like lawyers!! They're a necessary evil; only another lawyer can argue a case against a lawyer what with all the legal mumbo-jumbo spoken these days!

My apologies to any lawyers on this forum; is Skip a lawyer???

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

...My apologies to any lawyers on this forum; is Skip a lawyer??? ...

Nope...

I've spent the better part of my adult life working the other (honest) side of the aisle!

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

My apologies to any lawyers on this forum

I should apologize, too. I hate it when people make comments about meteorologists getting paid to be wrong, so I should be more sympathetic.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Rose

I should apologize, too. I hate it when people make comments about meteorologists getting paid to be wrong, so I should be more sympathetic.

Naaah, these are lawyers after all. It's not like they're people with emotions and feelings and ....

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

OK, so here's the latest posts from the www.fishlakewinni.com website regarding the situation with Ames Farm Inn:

Late this afternoon, posted by lunkerhunter,

"hey guys,,i talked with a good friend and fisherman,,,you may have seen the boat around the lake" slo-n ezzz " we are looking to start a petition to send to the town of gilford's selectman, in reference to the reopening of ames farm boat launch. i am looking for some support with this. we spoke with the folks at ames today. they are hoping for the fisherman, and all those that have used there facility over the years to help them out with this matter . anyone that can help me out with writing up a petition, please give me a shout. also, heres a name and number to call ,,town administrator. SCOTT--603-527-4700.. LETS PUT A BUG IN HIS EAR, UNTIL THEY LISTEN TO REASON.. THE MORE CALLS WE MAKE, THE BETTER THE CHANCES ARE THE RAMP MAY BE RE OPENED TO THE PUBLIC.. AND WE ARE A " HUGE PART OF THE PUBLIC. ITS TIME WE TAKE A STAND AGAINST THOSE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR RIGHTS AS BOATERS AND FISHERMAN., I LOOK FORWARD TO EVERYONES HELP... PLEASE ,,, AND THANKS".

Followed by this post from ilucas,

"just called, waiting on a return call. Do you think I will get one?"

Which was quickly followed up by lunkerhunter,

"I CALLED TWICE BEFORE I GOT TO SPEAK TO SCOTT..3 OF MY BUDDDIES CALLED TODAY.. THINK HE S SICK OF IT ALREADY, I WAS TOLD THE TOWN WAS SUED BY SEVERAL INDIVIDUALS. WHICH FORCED THEM TO CLOSE AMES, I REPLIED ITS BEEN A PUBLIC RAMP FOR MANY MANY YEARS.. ALL OF A SUDDEN IT S A PROBLEM ?? SOMEBODY IS IN SOMEBODIES BACK POCKET".

And finally, this post earlier this evening from ilucas,

"Scott did return my call. He said it was a matter between Ames Farm and some of his nieghbors, that it was in the lawyers hands and there will be a case. He said Ames Farm has the support of alot of the local residence but there was nothing the town could do, it's in the court system now.

Not good."

This does NOT look good. Anyone have any good ideas?

[jrc]

Like I said before. We have a similar situation in Hollis with regards to a grandfathered gun club. They are still closed and it's been up and down the court system for years. They will probably never re-open. I'm guessing this (Ames) will go on for years. It's in the abutters best interest to draw this out.

It's a warning bell for every property owner out there. Your grandfather status is only as good as your lawyer and then only as long as you can afford to pay him.

Your private property rights exist at the whim of the government. Be careful how you vote.

[Resident 2B]

As I understand it, the legal issue is centered around the type of use in the ealry 1960's. Specifically, was the ramp at Ames used for public launchings or was it restricted to those that rented units at Ames in that time period. If the ramp was used for public launchings, the "grandfathering" as a public access ramp might be able to be proven.

When I was 12 or so, in 1960 or so, I had a friend that had an uncle who owned a non-lake-front place in the West Alton/Gilford area. I know we drove north, away from Alton, to launch the boat. It was a 5 to 10 minute ride. The boat stayed at the place we used to launch it and we went back and forth from the camp to the boat several times that week. I am somewhat sure the place we launched and later pulled the boat was Ames Farm. I remember coming down a hill with the lake on the right, then turning into the place we launched the boat. It was a flat place on a large bay from my recollections.

I do not know if this is important or not, but I think it might be. If anyone else out there has memories like mine, please post them and perhaps it might help.

R2B

[Mr. V]

Here is a link to an earlier thread, which may impart background information: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=5276

[Sunbeam lodge]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

in 2007?

I still think there's something rotten going on here that isn't public knowledge.........yet! I have a co-worker that was using Ames Farm 20+ years ago to launch and park his truck/trailer for the day for a fee; I've been doing exactly that for the past 10 years! You can't tell me the town didn't know this was going on until just 2 years ago!!!!!

As of right now, I don't know where I'm going to be able to launch this year.

How about Ames checking their income tax records for receipts from the public for fees to launch their boats and stor their trailers.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Sunbeam lodge

How about Ames checking their income tax records for receipts from the public for fees to launch their boats and stor their trailers.

Good one, provided the income was declared.

Or how about Ames producing their old books, ledgers and journals from 1962 and earlier, if they can be found, and they can denote the claimed entries of income earned from the questioned endeavors?

Of course, if Ames pocketed the fees and didn't declare the income (heck, isn't that one reason many people want to have their own business, to deny the devil his due? It is sooooo tempting not to report untraceable income) that won't work.

Or Ames could secure the testimony of former coworkers who are unreleated to the Ames family on the issues in question; surely the once young waitresses, maids and helpers should be able to shed some light on this.

Or perhaps the testimony of contractors who helped Ames construct any claimed improvements can be adduced?

It would be best though to produce receipts of boat storage or launch fees (and photos) from day users, pre-1962: that would be definitive.

_____________

"All I want is the truth, just give me some truth>" : John Lennon

[topwater]

Or they can sell to a Large Hotel chain like (Marriott) or (Sheraton) that has oodles and oodles of money, And they can build a large Hotel Resort for the vacationers, Lot of screaming kids to bother all neighbors, loud boats, Parties down at the beach going to all hours, Bonfires till 2 in the morning. Let the Big Boys fight Gilford, they have enough money and lawyers to bury Gilford with 100's of thousands of dollars in paperwork and court appearances, Gilford will lose so much money it would be laughable. Yes they would get higher Taxes out of them, but then,they would have to because it cost them millions to lose.
Just one scenario, but I'm sure the Ames Family has thought about it.

[eyenotall777]

Neighbors should be careful what they wish for.....could turn into a 200-slip yacht club.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by eyenotall777

Neighbors should be careful what they wish for.....could turn into a 200-slip yacht club.

I doubt it: I don't think the property is deep enough.

Most likely a rich guy would buy it and build a huge dream home, or it would be broken into lots and several high end houses would be built.

Neither option is unattractive.

I sort of feel sorry for Ames Farm: it's an anachronism, a vestige of a bygone era.

My prediction: they'll sell when the economy picks up, and who could blame them?

Keep up, or get out of the way.

[snowbird]

One reason NH has not built a public ramp, like at Squam, is that the authorities considered the 17 [about] working ramps to be adequate, even though many more ramps could be supported based on the big lake's size. Perhaps someone should be asking the State about this. Furthermore, the Town of Gilford is denying access to the State's waters.

Perhaps NH could buy the Ames property. There is no question the State's formula for reasonable access has been curtailed by the Town's action. And it seems the threat of a lawsuit sent them for cover. But in this day and age, if enough money is made available, the serious threat of a countersuit might work. But Ames should not be expected to carry the costs alone.

[I'm not a lawyer. You don't have to tell me so. But there is right and there is wrong. This is wrong, IMO.]

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

"...provided the income was declared..."

Even then, those tax records are only required to be saved for 10 years (for IRS' challenges against fraudulent returns). Who would have reasonably anticipated a legal challenge like this would come about—after 40 years?

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Naaah, these are lawyers after all. It's not like they're people with emotions and feelings...

...but job security...

Originally Posted by eyenotall777

Neighbors should be careful what they wish for.....could turn into a 200-slip yacht club.

A legal success here would inflate the value of ALL the abutting neighbors' properties. That could be what some of the affected abutters are actually after!

[Arubaman]

Buying Ames farm for a public boat ramp would not be cost effective for the State and the residents of the State. Right now the State has ample property to install a public boat ramp with plenty of parking for day boater's right at Ellacoya State Park. Without spending that much money a nice area could be built.

[Rose]

I noticed in today's Citizens article about the proposed BK yacht club that one of the principals of the B&P Realty Ventures (the corporation which is proposing the club) is Attorney Paul Bordeau. And one of the attorneys who represented the application of the Nix family at the 23 September 2008 Gilford ZBA meeting was an Attorney Paul Bordeau.

Verrrry interesting...

[HUH]

Originally Posted by snowbird

One reason NH has not built a public ramp, like at Squam, is that the authorities considered the 17 [about] working ramps to be adequate, even though many more ramps could be supported based on the big lake's size. Perhaps someone should be asking the State about this. Furthermore, the Town of Gilford is denying access to the State's waters.

Perhaps NH could buy the Ames property. There is no question the State's formula for reasonable access has been curtailed by the Town's action. And it seems the threat of a lawsuit sent them for cover. But in this day and age, if enough money is made available, the serious threat of a countersuit might work. But Ames should not be expected to carry the costs alone.

[I'm not a lawyer. You don't have to tell me so. But there is right and there is wrong. This is wrong, IMO.]

Realy? Have you been out on the lake on a summer weekend.. More ramps and marinas are far from necessary.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Arubaman

Buying Ames farm for a public boat ramp would not be cost effective for the State and the residents of the State. Right now the State has ample property to install a public boat ramp with plenty of parking for day boater's right at Ellacoya State Park. Without spending that much money a nice area could be built.

I was told by a co-worker (who's also an avid fisherman) that he was told by Fish & Game people years ago that the reason a ramp was never pursued at Ellacoya was the need for significant dredging and it would take too much to get the necessary permits for that. He was also told, as snowbird said, the state considered the 17 (or so) working ramps adequate to provide public access to the lake.

Well, now there's only 16! And of those 16, how many have adequate parking for truck and trailer to go along with them???? Ames Farm has both; TWO ramps and PLENTY of parking! A public ramp is useless for an out-of-town boater trailering in if he has to park a 1/4 mile or more away! I know, that's probably music to the ears of some lake property owners; god forbid I should be allowed to put my boat in their lake, even though I AM a life-long NH resident!

[fatlazyless]

Uummm...maybe Gilford would offer bass fishing tournaments and NH Fish & Game's species monitoring team the use of a section of its' huge Gilford town beach, and parking lot, and facilities while Ames Farm Inn goes through months (years?) of legal manuevers?

www.amesfarminn.com

Lakes Winnisquam, Newfound, and Squam have all grown very nice, no-fee, state boat launch facilities, complete with car&trailer parking spaces, boat-launching ramps, dock, and rest rooms in the last ten years. All built with fishing license fees.

Maybe, Winnipesaukee will be next on the list, if Ames Farm Inn loses its' land use, legal battle? How long before that could happen......like years, probably?

[nj2nh]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Naaah, these are lawyers after all. It's not like they're people with emotions and feelings and ....

Hey, I'm a lawyer! Most of us are really nice, kind people who do indeed have emotions and feelings. My husband is, too. I used to put people in jail (a noble cause, you must agree) and now I have the thankless job of keeping them out. My husband is a real estate and estate planning lawyer. I would bet most of you would appreciate it if you needed either one of us!

As for those whose sole purpose is to be obstructionist - I say the first thing we do is kill MOST of the lawyers!

nj2nh

[gravy boat]

NJ2NH -- good post!

For the record, I have one family member who is a lawyer -- another is a CPA -- my father-in-law works for the IRS in a high level position -- I am a recruiter/headhunter. You may not like some or all of us, but when any of you need us you are quite pleasant and happy to have our help.

Regarding Ames -- I am curious. How many people sounding off on this forum own a residence within 1/2 mile of Ames, specifically on the shoreline?

GB

[rander7823]

Originally Posted by Rose

I noticed in today's Citizens article about the proposed BK yacht club that one of the principals of the B&P Realty Ventures (the corporation which is proposing the club) is Attorney Paul Bordeau. And one of the attorneys who represented the application of the Nix family at the 23 September 2008 Gilford ZBA meeting was an Attorney Paul Bordeau.

Verrrry interesting...

Excellent observation. When reading the article it mentions the potential for an upscale restaurant at that site. That could explain the Gordon Ramsey reference in the BK Restaurant thread. Big yacht club goes in then build the upscale restaurant, Don't you just love a good conspiracy theory.

[HUH]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

I was told by a co-worker (who's also an avid fisherman) that he was told by Fish & Game people years ago that the reason a ramp was never pursued at Ellacoya was the need for significant dredging and it would take too much to get the necessary permits for that. He was also told, as snowbird said, the state considered the 17 (or so) working ramps adequate to provide public access to the lake.

Well, now there's only 16! And of those 16, how many have adequate parking for truck and trailer to go along with them???? Ames Farm has both; TWO ramps and PLENTY of parking! A public ramp is useless for an out-of-town boater trailering in if he has to park a 1/4 mile or more away! I know, that's probably music to the ears of some lake property owners; god forbid I should be allowed to put my boat in their lake, even though I AM a life-long NH resident!

Everyones pespective is different I guess.. Maybe you are unaware of the already existing congestion problem at certain times on the lake. I believe Winni has reached or exceeded its maximum level of sustainability. If you want to be on the lake you have to fight for it.. IE rent a slip or a shorefront property or buy a condo etc.. otherwise, "like everywhere else" your most likely going to have to drive or walk to your truck/trailer, wait in line, find a spot etc...
We now have people parking on the side of our road, even blocking driveways!
Please dont try and make it sound like anyone is denying you of anything..I only state that ive seen enough to know Winni is getting pretty crazy.. we already stay on shore during weekends so all the warriors can have at it..

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by nj2nh

As for those whose sole purpose is to be obstructionist - I say the first thing we do is kill MOST of the lawyers! nj2nh

Lawyers are fun to have around. They know all of the best lawyer jokes.

[gravy boat]

Steve A -- so true! Just as we blonds know the best blond jokes.


HUH -- good points. The lake can be VERY congested on weekends.

There is public access besides Ames, as mentioned. It's just not going to be convenient for the folks who have had the convenience of Ames in the past.

[Arubaman]

Originally Posted by HUH

Everyones pespective is different I guess.. Maybe you are unaware of the already existing congestion problem at certain times on the lake. I believe Winni has reached or exceeded its maximum level of sustainability. If you want to be on the lake you have to fight for it.. IE rent a slip or a shorefront property or buy a condo etc.. otherwise, "like everywhere else" your most likely going to have to drive or walk to your truck/trailer, wait in line, find a spot etc...
We now have people parking on the side of our road, even blocking driveways!
Please dont try and make it sound like anyone is denying you of anything..I only state that ive seen enough to know Winni is getting pretty crazy.. we already stay on shore during weekends so all the warriors can have at it..

I can not see why people would have to fight to be on a PUPLIC BODY OF WATER.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by HUH

Winni is getting pretty crazy.. we already stay on shore during weekends so all the warriors can have at it..

Yup, I agree. Why just last weekend I saw these weekend warriors go by ....

[Rose]

Originally Posted by HUH

We now have people parking on the side of our road, even blocking driveways!

All the more reason for a place with ample parking, like Ames, to stay open.

[EricP]

I don't get people sometimes. I realize this particular situation may not be exactly the point I am making. The Ames Farm has been operating for a long time now. Some of the neighbors are now complaining (from what I gather) and this is the root of the problem. Seems to me if you bought a place next to a busy spot, such as Ames Farm, a public beach, the Weirs, etc.. you should know that it will get busy and therefore should understand that and deal with it. It's not like you bought your place and then sudenly a new public facility showed up next to you, it was already there. It's like putting your foot in a bucket of water then complaining it is wet. Again, I don't know the entire situation there but how much of this is based on complaints after someone put there foot in the water?

I personally have no stake in this game, but it the whole situation seems wrong to me. Ames has been there "forever" and is well known as a pay-for use launch spot, personally I think $20 to put your boat is in steep but then again it's the convenience I suppose.

[robmac]

I IMHO think that what you decided to have as your neighbor was your choice. As stated before Ames has been there as long as I can remember,your new neighbor could be alot worse. I remember as a kid a family on our street was always going at it with the people next door.Well one finally moved and for lack of a better term sold to trailer trash that made the property look like a junk yard. So be carefull what you wish for it CAN be worse. IMHO

[Lakepilot]

If you buy a place beside a commercial activity like Ames, not only do you know in advance what you are getting, you pay less for the property. Then if the commercial enterprise is forced to leave, the value of your property goes up.

I've seen this many times with airports. People buy a house under the approach path at a very low price, then complain about the noise. The airport goes and now their property is worth a lot more.

[gravy boat]

My understanding is that the lawyer's family has owned the land for several generations -- they didn't recently purchase the property and suddenly start complaining.


GB

[Mr. V]

Get your facts straight.

The neighbors are not new, they've been there a long time.

So your coming to the nuisance argument must fail.

The issue is that the activity at Ames Farm has grown increasingly commercial over time, and they apparently did not bother to secure the appropriate permits etc. from the appropriate government activities which would allow it.

I don't know whether Ames Farm would have been allowed to engage in the questioned commercial activities had they bothered to seek permission.

But now it's probably too late: Ames seems to have run afoul of the law, and the quasi-political question is: what to do about it?

Of course, if they can marshall the necessary proof to support their argument that the questioned uses are grandfathered, then the problem is solved.

Thus far, they've been unable to do so.

[Arubaman]

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

If you buy a place beside a commercial activity like Ames, not only do you know in advance what you are getting, you pay less for the property. Then if the commercial enterprise is forced to leave, the value of your property goes up.

I've seen this many times with airports. People buy a house under the approach path at a very low price, then complain about the noise. The airport goes and now their property is worth a lot more.

You see it happen everyday, carpet baggers move in and start complaining and other people, other homes and business that have been in operation from the get go. Some move in claiming that now they live next to the lake that they own the lake, the lakes and ponds belong to everyone not just the lakeside residents. I can see have zoning laws, they do work and they do keep peoples investment on the higher end of the scale.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Get your facts straight.

The neighbors are not new, they've been there a long time.

So your coming to the nuisance argument must fail.

The remaining complainant is not new...there were others originally involved who are newer (1990's) and seemed comfortable with the Gilford Planning Board's July decision to approve the as-built plan put forth by Ames Farm, which included public use of the boat ramps. Perhaps joe, the abutter who posted on this topic over a year ago, would like to give his opinion, if he's still viewing the forum. There are other long-term abutters, including a group who owns property between the attorney's mother's property and Ames Farm who are very supportive of Ames Farm.

So, Mr. V, when you're in the neighborhood, do you stay at the attorney's mother's property?

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Rose

So, Mr. V, when you're in the neighborhood, do you stay at the attorney's mother's property?

No, nor do I attend their yearly Lobster fest (don't like lobsters, don't drink).

But Steve is a good guy.

My family's place is down the shoreline a little bit, not too far, and close enough that this issue is relevant and of concern to me.

How about YOU, Rose: got lakefront?

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Rose

All the more reason for a place with ample parking, like Ames, to stay open.

And as I've said in the past on other Ames thread, having a private funded resource like Ames is priceless. If the Gov't were to try to do something like that operation, it would COST taxpayers a whole lot more. There is nothing else like it on the lake for trailering-boaters, and it would be very sad to see it end, even though I no longer need it myself.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by HUH

Everyones pespective is different I guess.. Maybe you are unaware of the already existing congestion problem at certain times on the lake. I believe Winni has reached or exceeded its maximum level of sustainability. If you want to be on the lake you have to fight for it.. IE rent a slip or a shorefront property or buy a condo etc.. otherwise, "like everywhere else" your most likely going to have to drive or walk to your truck/trailer, wait in line, find a spot etc...

I'm well aware of the congestion; I've been boating on the lake for the past 10 years now and before that, I spent alot of time on the lake in the summer back in the 70's. Essentially, what you're saying is, the wealthy can have whatever they want and the middle class has to do without or go bankrupt trying to enjoy boating as a pasttime. I don't have the money to shell out $3000-$5000 PLUS to rent a slip for the summer!!! And have you looked at the rental price of shorefront property with a dock?!? I certainly can't afford $1500/week (I believe that's a conservative estimate) for 10 weeks in the summer and buying property on the lake is out of the question; even if I could find something that I like, the prices are just outrageously high!! I'm just a middle-class employee trying to enjoy some time on the lake with my wife, THAT'S why I trailer my boat!! And now with Ames Farm launch ramps closed to the public, it's going to be even harder for me to enjoy a Sunday on the lake!

I have a 1-week timeshare on the lake; I didn't shell out thousands of dollars to buy a boat so I could only use it ONE WEEK out of the year!!

Originally Posted by HUH

I only state that ive seen enough to know Winni is getting pretty crazy.. we already stay on shore during weekends so all the warriors can have at it..

Reminds me of the phrase, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!"

Originally Posted by Arubaman

I can not see why people would have to fight to be on a PUPLIC BODY OF WATER.

Excellent point, but some people seem to think Lake Winnipesaukee isn't a public body of water!!

Originally Posted by Rose

All the more reason for a place with ample parking, like Ames, to stay open.

Also an excellent point, Rose!

HUH, I'll bet you have the police phone number memorized or on speed dial so you can have those "evil" trailer boaters towed away!! So why can't the neighbor next to Ames Farm work with them (instead of against them!) so they can stay open so the trailer boaters won't be blocking ANYONE'S driveway?

[fatlazyless]

For what it's worth, the no-fee, State of NH, ramp facilities at Newfound Lake and Squam Lakes are real nice.

Understand the State of NH is now planning to build a ramp facility on a three acre parcel on Lake Sunapee. A "Friends of Lake Sunapee" local conservation group has appealed the state's decision, lol

Lots-o-luck in building a state ramp on Winnipesaukee? Oh yeah....whoopsie.....States Landing next to Harilla Point marina/storage down the end of Moultonborough Neck already is a state ramp

[wifi]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

....States Landing next to Harilla Point marina/storage down the end of Moultonborough Neck .....

"States" Landing and Harilla are on the opposite sides of town

States Landing is a town beach with permit required, it only had the word state in it, nothing to do with the Great State of NH

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

So why can't the neighbor next to Ames Farm work with them (instead of against them!) so they can stay open so the trailer boaters won't be blocking ANYONE'S driveway?

Because there's much more to this than the neighbor not wanting trailered boats at Ames Farm, IMHO...it's been going on for years...why would it suddenly be a problem? I think the real problem lies between him and a member of the Ames family and only those directly involved know what's really going on.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Rose

Because there's much more to this than the neighbor not wanting trailered boats at Ames Farm, IMHO...it's been going on for years...why would it suddenly be a problem? I think the real problem lies between him and a member of the Ames family and only those directly involved know what's really going on.

Oh I know and I agree. It was more of a rhetorical question really; I wasn't expecting an answer that would solve the mystery! I just find it annoying that their solution to a disagreement with Ames Farm and its owners is to get the business closed (or the size of the operation limited) and further limit access to the lake!

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by wifi

"States" Landing and Harilla are on the opposite sides of town

States Landing is a town beach with permit required, it only had the word state in it, nothing to do with the Great State of NH

Isn't there a State of NH launch ramp right next to the Harilla Landing Marina, and it is, in fact, the one and only state owned, public ramp, on the entire lake. Maybe it is called the Harilla state ramp, or something?

So, why not have all the bass tournaments, State F&G, pancake eaters, and long time Ames fans all relocate to that little, shallow, dirt & gravel, state ramp....away down the very end of Moultonborough Neck...........................................pro blem solved !

Any construction barges parked there, lately?

[Arubaman]

There is no State of NH owned boat Ramp On Lake Winnipesaukee. They are either owned by Towns or private boat yards.

[TomC]

I understand that the ramp at the end of the neck road (by Harilla) is State property... of course on busy weekends you have to practically park your trailer back at the LI bridge, but that's a different problem...

[GusMan]

I've used the Harilla Landing ramp to launch my bassboat for many years. It's in a nice central location on the lake that gives access to much of the rest of the lake without having to cross the broads.

It's a decent launch, but certainly doesn't compare to a facility like Ames Farm. It is a sand/gravel ramp with several large boulders that makes launching larger boats all but impossible. I was also told by NH Fish and Game that the town of Moultonboro was planning to make the parking along the street near Harilla residents only... much like the ramp at the Long Island bridge.

Cheers....

Gusman

[Onshore]

Technically speaking Ellacoya and Harilla are both state owned. Ellacoya is owned and maintained by the Dept of Resources and Economic Development and Harilla is what is known as a "road to public waters" owned by NH DOT.

There will be repairs and improvements at Harilla this year. Permit was issued last year. Unfortunately they will not address parking issues. Not sure when they will begin but expect it to be soon based on the chatter lately.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by GusMan

I was also told by NH Fish and Game that the town of Moultonboro was planning to make the parking along the street near Harilla residents only... much like the ramp at the Long Island bridge.

Cheers....

Gusman

Originally Posted by shore things

Technically speaking Ellacoya and Harilla are both state owned. Ellacoya is owned and maintained by the Dept of Resources and Economic Development and Harilla is what is known as a "road to public waters" owned by NH DOT.

There will be repairs and improvements at Harilla this year. Permit was issued last year. Unfortunately they will not address parking issues. Not sure when they will begin but expect it to be soon based on the chatter lately.

shore things, as Gusman posted above you (and I have quoted), the town of Moultonboro is planning on making the street parking on the road near Harilla "residents only" so any improvements there that don't include adequate parking for a truck/trailer, are worthless to me. That and the extra distance around the lake to get there (40 minutes more than it currently takes me to get to Ames Farm), means it's really not an option for me. And Ellacoya is useless for me since the state doesn't have a boat launch ramp there and, as far as I know, has no intention in the near future to put one in.

All I can hope for is a swift and favorable resolution to the Ames Farm mess OR that West Alton Marina or Minge Cove have ramps AND adequate parking.

[DRH]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

All I can hope for is a swift and favorable resolution to the Ames Farm mess OR that West Alton Marina or Minge Cove have ramps AND adequate parking.

Minge Cove Marina is privately owned, has very limited parking, and the boat ramp is not a public ramp. It is only available to the marina's owners and their guests.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Thank you for that info, DRH; I guess I won't be calling them! I'll have to keep my fingers crossed for West Alton Marina.

[fatlazyless]

Town of Meredith recently increased their launching price from ten to twenty dollars, cash, at Town Docks and Lovejoy Sands (Shep Brown's) for non-property owners. Property owners need to purchase and display a twenty dollar (just increased from ten) facilities permit, good for two years, to use the ramps.

Commenting at the selectmen's meeting where it got passed by five - zero, one selectmen said "people can afford it and the town is running short because no one is buying and registering any new cars, this year."

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Thank you for that info, DRH; I guess I won't be calling them! I'll have to keep my fingers crossed for West Alton Marina.

Sign for West Alton on rte 11 says "Launch $15".

Give them a call...I have always found them to be accomodating.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

First, I presume Lovejoy Sands is for residents only which I'm not, so that's out. Second, I'm not driving through Meredith traffic in the summer on the weekend, NO WAY, NO HOW!! It's a nightmare!

Thanks, upthesaukee, they're first on my call list. Not that I have a big boat but a full-size truck pulling a 28 ft trailer (for a 25 ft boat) tends to need a lot of space for maneuvering and parking. I've never been to West Alton Marina so I have no idea how much space they have.

[fatlazyless]

Lovejoy Sands is available to anyone for boat launching just like Town Docks. Pay the town's twenty dollar launch fee to Shep Brown's, as posted on a sign, when there's no one collecting at the ramp.

Taking a couple of back roads to get to Lovejoy Sands (Shep Browns) is probably doable, even on July 4 weekend.

From Centre Harbor-Rt 25b-NH Music Ctr, take Symphony Rd to the Keyser (dirt) Rd that gets onto Rt 25 at the height of land, between Meredith and Centre Harbor, and then it's a couple hundred yards of stall & crawl down high school hill on Rt 25 to Barnard Ridge Rd and then five easy miles on the Neck Rd to Lovejoy Sands.

With the new #@^%*! Hannaford's traffic, open since November.............it may be a problem???

[upthesaukee]

I used to keep my 19 foot there.

road in is a little curvy, then a right turn and past the old bathrooms and a left turn. You are heading towards the gas docks and can make a left 180 degree turn to line up with the launch ramp. I would ask them the width of the ramp; it has been a while since I have used the ramp (a couple of years), but I don't think it is too narrow for a 25 ft (I'll guess a Baja ).

Have a great boating season, and look for the 19ft Sunbird Corsair with a Merc optimax on the back, and Upthesaukee on the side.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Thanks for that description, upthesaukee; it sounds do-able! I manage to launch and retrieve at the Wolfeboro public docks ramp each July when we're up for vacation; I'm sure you've seen that one. It's a little tricky but I've never had a major problem. The worst part is the pedestrians; there's always someone trying to cross behind you as you're backing down!

Yes, it is a Baja, a 25 Outlaw (yes, a dreaded GFBL! I prefer the term "performance boat".)

If all goes well with West Alton, I'll look for you on our usual Sunday trips to the big lake!!

[jbess]

As someone who comes to the lake once or twice a year, Ames, was a great place to launch from. Does anyone have input on Fayes boatyard for launching?

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

How about YOU, Rose: got lakefront?

Sadly, not since 1995.

Steve actually serenaded my mother and other guests in the summer house at the Farm many years ago.

[HUH]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

I'm well aware of the congestion; I've been boating on the lake for the past 10 years now and before that, I spent alot of time on the lake in the summer back in the 70's. Essentially, what you're saying is, the wealthy can have whatever they want and the middle class has to do without or go bankrupt trying to enjoy boating as a pasttime. I don't have the money to shell out $3000-$5000 PLUS to rent a slip for the summer!!! And have you looked at the rental price of shorefront property with a dock?!? I certainly can't afford $1500/week (I believe that's a conservative estimate) for 10 weeks in the summer and buying property on the lake is out of the question; even if I could find something that I like, the prices are just outrageously high!! I'm just a middle-class employee trying to enjoy some time on the lake with my wife, THAT'S why I trailer my boat!! And now with Ames Farm launch ramps closed to the public, it's going to be even harder for me to enjoy a Sunday on the lake!

I have a 1-week timeshare on the lake; I didn't shell out thousands of dollars to buy a boat so I could only use it ONE WEEK out of the year!!



Reminds me of the phrase, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!"



Excellent point, but some people seem to think Lake Winnipesaukee isn't a public body of water!!



Also an excellent point, Rose!

HUH, I'll bet you have the police phone number memorized or on speed dial so you can have those "evil" trailer boaters towed away!! So why can't the neighbor next to Ames Farm work with them (instead of against them!) so they can stay open so the trailer boaters won't be blocking ANYONE'S driveway?

Oh please ..not the poor middle class speech! Barry has beat that one to death..
Ive been boating on winni for 42 years.. its gone from enjoyable to a downright nail biter on the weekends.
Are you condoning blocking someones driveway? Sure sounds that way.
When I said fight to get on the lake it was a figure of speech, not littoral.

[fatlazyless]

The Granite State News has an article that Ames Farm Inn has reopened for bass fishing tournaments, and how the Town of Moultonborough has upped it fishing tournament fees causing the tournaments to migrate across the lake to Ames. Sounds like some welcome news for Ames and bass tournaments?

Did see a few serious look'n bass boats this weekend......21' w/ 225hp ob's...maybe a tournament?

[whosnext8302]

This is great news for the Ames's. It sounds like the launch ramps must be open again?

[Rose]

Don't know how this rumor got started. It apparently showed up in the Meredith News and the Gilford Steamer, but it is untrue. Only guests at the Farm can utilize the ramps or store their boats there. Peggy Ames wrote a letter to the Laconia Daily Sun which appeared in the online in April 29th edition stating this was the case. Any questions may be addressed to her or her father, Peter.

[fatlazyless]

.....maybe it was just a case of wishfull thinking coming from the Salmon Press.....after all....with the smallmouth bass getting fished by the tournaments...there's more food for the salmon.... duh...sorry!

[eyenotall777]

You are correct Rose, but can't anyone be a guest? I think the key word, it it must be "overnight" guests. I did drive by this past weekend and there was a sign posted "Public Ramp Closed". It really is too bad.

[Justenuff]

Originally Posted by jbess

As someone who comes to the lake once or twice a year, Ames, was a great place to launch from. Does anyone have input on Fayes boatyard for launching?

The area around Fay's is very congested with his normal crowd that uses the mooring and slips. I don't believe there is adequate parking for vehicle and trailer.

Good luck finding a spot like Ames!

[fatlazyless]

Anybody w/ 20 dollars can launch & later retrieve at Meredith town docks, and park both their car & attached trailer at the town lot, about 1/10 mile away, directly in front of Aubuchon's Hardware.

Anybody with a kayak or canoe and no trailer can hand carry off the aluminum dock next to the ramp for no charge.

Watch out for the fishing lines of salmon fisher-people fishing from the shoreline.

Public wash rooms at nearby Mobil gas & convenience store.

Meredith Bay has a welcoming, 1/2 mile, no wake zone enroute to the big water and Meredith is a good place to go splash your boat !

[gravy boat]

I have to say that this Spring as been mighty quiet over Ames way. And this weekend was extremely low key compared to the last few years. What a great cash business that must have been!

Anybody heard anything new?

GB

[Slickcraft]

Saw this today:

MLS#: 2819965

2800 LAKE SHORE RD., Gilford NH 03249

$2,000,000
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: $2.000.000.00 BUYS 43.25% OWNERSHIP AS "TENANTS IN COMMON". NO PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENTS EXIST. OWNERSHIP CAN BE PURCHASED IN SMALLER AMOUNTS. 1% FOR $46,500 AND SO ON. LAKESIDE 15 ACRES,MOUNTAIN SIDE 116 ACRES.PART OF THIS ACREAGE IS IN CURRENT USE.OWNERSHIP DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY EXCLUSIVE USE. OPPORTUNITY TO INVEST IN FUTURE POTENTIAL FINANCIAL GAIN, AND MORE IMPORTANT TO HELP MAINTAIN LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE AND AMES FARM INN AS IT EXISTS TODAY. OWNERSHIP INTEREST BEING SOLD "AS IS"

[fatlazyless]

Probably, to sweeten the deal, Ames Farm Inn could include for the $2-mil, 43.25% buyer an offer of first refusal for pursuing the pancake breakfast, kitchen clean-up position as in cleaning the griddle, pots, pans, sink, stove, counter & floor. After all, wage-paying jobs have become very difficult to get!

[RailroadJoe]

Maybe they will change their mind now that the issue has been resolved. We don't need a certain lawyer buying the 43%.

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by RailroadJoe

Maybe they will change their mind now that the issue has been resolved. We don't need a certain lawyer buying the 43%.

While the defeat of that petition article eliminated a future roadblock, unfortunately Ames Farm still is not free to restart boat launching. They had been shut down as they are in a residential zone that does not include commercial boat launching as a permitted use. That certain lawyer led a successful fight the get the ZBA to overrule the planning board who had determined that launching was a grandfathered use.

So it will probably take a zoning change. Maybe another citizen petition next year? No to involuntary merging today, yes to public launching tomorrow?

[fatlazyless]

And, in the meantime, Ames Farm Inn has a Gilford property tax bill of over one hundred dollars/day, every day of the year, while it is hardly a year round business.

$43,686. annual Gilford property tax divided by 365 = $119.69/day......(ouch!)
.........

The State of New Hampshire should at least consider stepping up to the plate, and getting into a public-private Ames Farm boat launch, pancake breakfast eating, AGREEMENT that keeps the Ames Farm Inn open green space intact and keeps the trailer-boater, NH public rolling along.

The 2nd, 3rd, & 4th largest NH lakes; Squam, Winnisquam, & Newfound all have state boat launch facilities, and Winnipesaukee does not, because it has Ames. Ames has been the defacto state boat launch facility on Winnipesaukee for over a hundred years. With an annual state budget over 11-billion dollars, spending 2-million for a starter agreement with Ames is money well spent.

Maybe Ames wants to get some smallie bumper stickers 'Save Ames Farm' printed up, selling for two dollars each or so, to raise awareness and gather support, and Ames Farm supporters could mail a 'Save Ames Farm' bumper sticker along with a personal note to their local 400 state reps and 24 state senators to get their attention.

Once Ames gets sold to a private party, it probably will never be the same place it has been, but getting into a quasi state-private relationship could keep it going just as it is.

In 2003, the state under Gov Craig Benson really dropped the ball by not purchasing 130-acre Timber Island, Lake Winnipesaukee's 7th largest island & totally primieval forest for 1.5-million dollars. It had the chance and the state sat on its' hands.

Let's not let the State of NH miss the boat with Ames!