Performance Boats

[ApS]

"Harassment comes with the territory".

Agreed...Lake amphibians are the loudest single-engine aircraft over Lake Winnipesaukee, but only because stock Republic Seabees have nearly disappeared.

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Lakers have no more right to be louder than any other boat unless the boat built was built PRIOR to 1968 and they have been issued a PERMIT. You really need to brush up on the laws BEFORE you state your OPINION as FACT...

What FACT was that? Sure, one can be made legal by shuffling new conditions into the RSAs.

Thanks for the reminder for Lakers; now, how can I tell that the Laker going by has a "PERMIT"? How could it be any louder than ocean-racers? A Cobalt shouldn't be making the same volume of noise as a Laker with a "PERMIT". Compare these two short videos:

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2de4d346.mp4

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...psba384928.mp4

Thank you for the references to the changes to the previous RSA. I see there's a yearly "creep" as to what newer engines may be allowed to create more noise:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

II. A boat may be equipped with a switchable device that will reduce the exhaust noise level in compliance with the limits established by RSA 270:37.

By legal definition the switchable exhaust can make a boat already in compliance with RSA 270:37 quieter. It cannot allow a boat to exceed RSA 270:37. Get your facts straight.... oh wait... facts don't matter to you.

Woodsy

Are all the noisy boats in my Labor Day video now in compliance with the newest RSA?

I didn't think so.

It appears the RSA was deliberately "crafted" to make noisy interruptions legal—beginning with the change from the former (and dangerous) 100+ MPH run-by tests.

Who would fault NHMP for copying New Jersey's recent dockside noise-testing standards? 'No point in risking an officer being run over at the very high speeds that accompanies the vast majority of "performance" boats.

This opinion still stands:

For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

[Woodsy]

APS...

Your last post illustrates my issue with you and others like you. You post your OPINION but state it as FACT. You have a right to your opinion, and I do respect that. However, I will call you out when you state your opinion as FACT...

Its not my fault you cannot comprehend/understand the noise laws... they are VERY specific and VERY enforceable! This is so simple a 5th grader could understand it!

The noise (Db) limits set in RSA 270:35 have not changed in OVER 20 YEARS! So regardless of your opinion, there has been no "yearly creep" or increase in the allowed exhaust noise. Boats manufactured after December 31, 1990 are subject to a STRICTER noise standard than those manufactured prior.

The noise limits for NH are NOT arbitrary numbers. They were derived from noise standards & statutes from both the Federal Gov't, other states & marine manufacturers (NMMA) and the National Association of State Boating Law Administrators (NASBLA). NASBLA are the ones behind the Safe Boater certification standards. To wit, the NH boating noise laws follow the NASBLA noise recommendations from 1989 to the letter! Hard to believe we have had the same noise laws for over 20 years.... the HORROR!

The switchable (Captains Call) exhaust allowed under RSA 270:25-II does not allow for anyone to exceed the noise limits set forth in RSA 270:35. In simpler terms, a boat cannot be in violation of RSA 270:35 regardless of the switchable exhaust. Sorry you are having a hard time understanding this VERY SIMPLE law.

But why let facts get in the way of your anti-performance boats BS??

As to the rest of your post...

You (or I) personally have no way of knowing if an old Laker has a permit allowing an exception to RSA 270:35 short of getting the bow numbers and asking the NHMP. I seriously doubt they have ever issued more than a handful of permits. I would think they tend to be nostalgic and look the other way when it comes to the old boats. (as most people tend to do)

Unfortunately for you, your videos.... they prove nothing. Other than some boats were out enjoying the lake and they annoyed you enough for you to video them. Given your propensity to sensationalize a subject, who is to say those videos are not edited to increase the sound level in order to prove your point?

Are you a qualified sound engineer? What was the ambient noise level (db) prior to those boats running by? What was the actual noise level (db) of the boats? Exactly how far away were you? What was their bearing relative to you? Where is the DB meter showing the readings in your video? When was it last calibrated? Etc etc...

The bottom line is... It is your OPINION that those boats in your videos were too loud. It is not however a FACT.

Woodsy

[SIKSUKR]

Oh boy.

[Pricestavern]

Good God! Can't this be taken off-line thru PMs rather than subject us all to the finger-pointing, name calling, ridiculing, and down-right nasty tone this has spun down to? Please?

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

Compare these two short videos:

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2de4d346.mp4

http://vid70.photobucket.com/albums/...psba384928.mp4

I viewed the video's there is no comparison to make.... The conditions are not the same....

I will give up on trying to reason with you, as both Woodsy and I have tried to explain the reality here...... the lake is no nosier, with the switchable exhaust now legal.

I think that it is crazy that you spend so much time trying to prove your case. I am sorry that you vision of the lake, is not in tune with others. I have tried many times over the years to put Facts out before this forum on maters of noise levels. But the message seems to get lost....

Bottom line in a stationary test dockside the MP will evaluate exhaust noise, on the loudest setting.... if the boat passes, then the switched exhaust setting will only be quieter.... like wise in a at speed test, the boat is monitored to ensure the exhaust switch is appropriately set. Not to mention that muffling the sound will cause damage to the engine at full speed. Once again the limit is the based on the loudest exhaust method. switchable exhaust only makes the lake quieter....

The only thing I will agree with you on, is how are you to know when and if a boat is legal.... If you want to waste the MP time, and call in everytime you think a boat is over the limit that is your choice, and I am sure if possible they will check it out.... But Personally I would rather the MP spend their time looking for serious safety violations... and educating boaters.... not administering noise tests.

I live on a very busy portion of the lake, with boats racing from the LI bridge to the six pack all summer long..... yep once in a while it gets noise, but never in over 25 years, have I not been able to hold a normal conversation and have issue hearing people. Even when the neighbor 4 houses down starts his boat...with it thundering exhaust.

[Pineedles]

For all of those folks that don't like the arguments here, I offer the disclaimer placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

For all of those folks that don't like the arguments here, I offer the disclaimer placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

Not only that, but this is a public (well, semi public) forum. To anybody that feels they don't want to be subjected to all the finger pointing, comments, innuendoes etc, let me just suggest that you don't click on the link and read the threads and posts in this section. Problem solved.

[Pricestavern]

Never saw that disclaimer before since I usually go to the 'New Posts' section to check out the postings.

I'll leave you all to your cat fight. Enjoy!

[MGWillia]

Because I'm new and because I'm not a current boater (or even resident till later this year) I'm trying to learn from all of you about all the issues of the lakes and the region. And if there is more to be constructively said, I'm all for reading it. And though it seems to take dives into personal jabs, it does bounce back to interesting facts.I do have one question though. Is ground (or water for that matter) being made in the debate? I will admit that I get lost occasionally, but that could be my newbie ignorance. I have a feeling that there are some more factoids to be learned. Would it be possible to get a recap of where we are at? I mean if the discussion is making progress?

[SIKSUKR]

MGWillia, this forum had a very heated debate a few years back when a controversial speed limit was being pushed for Winni and ultimately passed. As Pineedles posted, the Webmaster had to make a special section because of all the members that were sick of the back and forth. It was his way to appeaze both participants and non participants. This thread has a little bit of that left over.FWIW

[BroadHopper]

As reported in the Weirs Times Flatlander article, and I can't remember the exact words, but basically there are folks that feels there are tooo many boats on the lake. They figured they can 'outlaw' boats. They are effective as the state published every year in the past decade that boat registration on Lake Winnipesaukee has declined. You can also attribute the decline on the current recession. If that's the case why has tourism increased in neighboring states? The Governor has this no brainer idea that the phrase 'Live Free and (fill in the blank)' will be an effective strategy for branding the state. Obviously its not working and is subjected to ridicule.

There are others that would like to turn Lake Winni into the quiet atmosphere of Squam Lake. Due to the commercialism of the big lake, I don't think that will ever happen.

There are talks among 'the chosen few' to claim the lake as a giant reservoir and limit the size of boats and the horsepower. I have not seen this in the legislative halls, but claiming the lake as a reservoir is possible as the surrounding towns get their municipal water from the lake.

What I am seeing is 'When boats are outlawed, only outlaws will have boats!' This forum is a great example of this with all the 'boneheads stories' you read in the past few years. I boat on this lake since the 50's. In the past few years I avoid the weekends between and including Memorial and Labor Day. It is too crazy out there!

There! I open the floodgates!

[MGWillia]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

As reported in the Weirs Times Flatlander article, and I can't remember the exact words, but basically there are folks that feels there are tooo many boats on the lake. They figured they can 'outlaw' boats. They are effective as the state published every year in the past decade that boat registration on Lake Winnipesaukee has declined. You can also attribute the decline on the current recession. If that's the case why has tourism increased in neighboring states? The Governor has this no brainer idea that the phrase 'Live Free and (fill in the blank)' will be an effective strategy for branding the state. Obviously its not working and is subjected to ridicule.

There are others that would like to turn Lake Winni into the quiet atmosphere of Squam Lake. Due to the commercialism of the big lake, I don't think that will ever happen.

There are talks among 'the chosen few' to claim the lake as a giant reservoir and limit the size of boats and the horsepower. I have not seen this in the legislative halls, but claiming the lake as a reservoir is possible as the surrounding towns get their municipal water from the lake.

What I am seeing is 'When boats are outlawed, only outlaws will have boats!' This forum is a great example of this with all the 'boneheads stories' you read in the past few years. I boat on this lake since the 50's. In the past few years I avoid the weekends between and including Memorial and Labor Day. It is too crazy out there!

There! I open the floodgates!

Well, keep things safe till I get there. I may not be boating now, but I sure would love to when I get there! Hold the Fort!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

Well, keep things safe till I get there. I may not be boating now, but I sure would love to when I get there! Hold the Fort!

Don't be discouraged, at its worst, Lake Winnipesaukee is still a wonderful place to go boating. We are really spoiled here, boating in other popular areas is vastly more hectic and challenging. Other than a few choke points, public docks and popular sand bars, the lake is very uncrowded, even on holiday weekends.

[DEJ]

For CL, the following disclaimer is placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

So CL if you visit the "lake issues" section be prepared to read something nasty. If those discussions annoy you then do not visit the lakes issues section, stay in the more friendly areas of this site, pretty simple and your blood pressure will be lower.

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by DEJ

For CL, the following disclaimer is placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

So CL if you visit the "lake issues" section be prepared to read something nasty. If those discussions annoy you then do not visit the lakes issues section, stay in the more friendly areas of this site, pretty simple and your blood pressure will be lower.

I was talking about " New Posts". First page. Not the special section under forums from where you pulled that disclaimer.

[DEJ]

Not sure what you mean by New posts first page. In any event the Lakes issue forum can get nasty. If they offend you simply do not visit that forum was my message to you.

[MGWillia]

The good thing about following this thread this long is, (yes I know it's posted on the forums, but I just have been hitting new post) But, I now know, why Webbsatwinni was upset that his post was moved. I was like "Well, they are talking about boats, so doesn't it belong in the Boat Issues vs just in General"... Well Now I know. And that's a good thing. I like a lively debate. Good to know there is a place for it. Thanks

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

I like a lively debate. Good to know there is a place for it. Thanks

Welcome, glad you get the intent of the lake issues section on this site. Some here still do not get it.

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Not sure what you mean by New posts first page. In any event the Lakes issue forum can get nasty. If they offend you simply do not visit that forum was my message to you.

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

I read it several times and was still confused. I only have one page and the lake issues is on the first page. Perhaps you have a different setting than I do. In any event the lake issues section usually has nasty posts, if that annoys you do not visit that section.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

I only use the "new posts" tab. Its clearly labeled Boating Issues on the right side of the thread. Let it go and stop reading threads you don't like. Much more annoying to a lot of us is when people whine about this stuff in those particular threads when it is CLEARLY labeled for them to see which ones to avoid.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I only use the "new posts" tab. Its clearly labeled Boating Issues on the right side of the thread. Let it go and stop reading threads you don't like. Much more annoying to a lot of us is when people whine about this stuff in those particular threads when it is CLEARLY labeled for them to see which ones to avoid.

Oh, jeez. Now I know why Chaselady wants to leave. Couldn't you use a little more tact? Aren't you just whining about whiners?😯

[ApS]

​

Originally Posted by Chaselady

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

There's been a change. Perhaps the forum can stick with one issue, which was excessive boat exhaust noise. I'd like to see the electronic noise-dampening pioneered by Lotus cars applied to noisy boats.

Originally Posted by Rusty

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

I've been gone for 24 hours, and now we're on another old, and even violent topic! That said, the video's "comments" section includes the observation that one of the victims had said to "Hide the beer cans".
I never before had seen the blue-shirted photographer apparently vomiting over the transom.

If you want to state that the reason that accident didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee is because of the speed limit as FACT.... I am going to call you out on it!

But, it has happened recently. If you go to that video, notice that the violence of the crash tore the anchor loose, which smashed the windshield. A collision here with Diamond Island resulted in the anchor striking a lakefront house!

"Crashes" have been mentioned here before—along with the recommendation to "Take a Performance-Boat Skills Course offered by Tres Martin" (You may select your favorite lake). Only one member here has passed that course, as evidenced by at least three factual "self-sinkings" by "performance boats" on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Back to "exhaust noise".

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I viewed the video's there is no comparison to make.... The conditions are not the same.... I will give up on trying to reason with you, as both Woodsy and I have tried to explain the reality here...... the lake is no noisier, with the switchable exhaust now legal.

My one point was that the noise law was changed to dockside testing—which changes everything. A $250 fine for noise violations is ludicrous: a weekend gas-up for ocean-racers goes for less.

Bottom line in a stationary test dockside the MP will evaluate exhaust noise, on the loudest setting.... if the boat passes, then the switched exhaust setting will only be quieter...

Then why has the NHMP reserved the right to perform "fly-by" testing as the follow-up alternative? I'd like to see a factual response.

Switchable exhaust only makes the lake quieter....

Same as above: the NHMP has reserved the right to perform "fly-by" testing as an alternative. Why that reservation?

But Personally I would rather the MP spend their time looking for serious safety violations... and educating boaters.... not administering noise tests.

Too often, those are "one-and-the-same". In coves, harbors, bays, and inlets that were formerly quiet, exhaust noise has only become an issue in the last 20 years.

Unfortunately for you, your videos.... they prove nothing. Other than some boats were out enjoying the lake and they annoyed you enough for you to video them.

My camera has no special powers, but the videos are intended to prove fact. It's up to individual viewers to decide if the point has been made.

This opinion still stands:

For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

​

I never before had seen the blue-shirted photographer apparently vomiting over the transom.

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up. First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom. I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event. However he was working and doing what his boss told him to do, which was ride and film that boat.

Originally Posted by ApS

​
But, it has happened recently. If you go to that video, notice that the violence of the crash tore the anchor loose, which smashed the windshield.

I see no anchor being torn loose in this video, I do see the accident, the boat was in the ocean and hit some big waves, and they did wash over the bow of the boat, but I don't see a broken windshield and don't see an anchor flying around either.

APS I am not trying to be rude here, but you seem to be making a lot of conjuncture here, with no proof to back it up.

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up.

Just saw this video for the first time. Golly it looked so much fun. His passengers seemed terrified and were holding on for dear life...until the captain way over estimated his abilities to handle the boat and speed. Of course had he been going 45 MPH......he would have avoided the accident.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom.

I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event.

If it was in the "comments" section on Youtube, you really can't dispute that.

Youtube Comments = Facts.

[ApS]

​

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up. First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom. I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event. However he was working and doing what his boss told him to do, which was ride and film that boat.

"Working", but suffered bruised ribs, a broken leg, a ruptured disc and a broken wrist! He appears somewhat paler than at the beginning of the video. Maybe he was "resting his head" but had suffered four+ injuries, and vomiting can happen in traumatic events. I hadn't noticed earlier, but the gal in the white suit is behaving similarly.

It was left to the white-shirted "Fury-Racing" guy to shut the camera down.



The "driver" suffered [skull] damage to the orbits of his eyes.

Details from another powerboat forum:

In addition to breaking a leg and a wrist, [photographer] Tintera says he ruptured a disc in his back and bruised some ribs. Among other injuries sustained by the passengers Tintera counts a broken back, a couple shattered eye sockets, and hips, feet, legs and arms all snapped as the boat shook violently back and forth before coming to a halt.

Tintera's footage has been seen over 3 million times at this point. He says Anderson Cooper invited him to appear on CNN, but he's too busted up to make the trip. The story also made Good Morning America, CBS News, the New York Post and a GIF made of the moment of impact appeared on Tosh.0's blog.

"Is it me or have Budweiser ads gotten kind of violent lately?" Tosh wrote.

Though Tintera understands the voyeuristic appeal of the footage, he's not exactly laughing. He considers himself lucky to be alive.

"If anyone would have been thrown out who knows what would have happened. Probably death," he says. "I'm very lucky to be talking and able to hobble around."

More eye-witness testimony...

The above participants in this seven-passenger "ocean-racer" were described as part of a Poker Run.

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I see no anchor being torn loose in this video, I do see the accident, the boat was in the ocean and hit some big waves, and they did wash over the bow of the boat, but I don't see a broken windshield and don't see an anchor flying around either.

I've seen this video before, but on a much sharper monitor: watch at 5:48—the foredeck hatch flies open. Shortly, the anchor flies out—still attached with chain—strikes the windshield frame—and disappears into the spray.



The Internet carries dozens of videos of the earlier seven-passenger crash, but in addition to several other worthwhile "boating adventures", this one carries a far better audio: (That is, if you like the sound of the engines followed by the clear sounds of multiple injuries.)

http://jukinvideo.com/videos/focus/C...VZhlu5ze5Cz74x

In addition to the Internet's many slow-motion segments, the GIF below is notable for fast-tracking the height of the action: watch the gal in yellow. Did she damage the windshield frame with her chin? Then bend the throttles with her ribs?



Her sunglasses go flying, do a "bank-shot" off the windshield frame, and end up back in the boat!


.

[neutronxray]

It would be great to see the offshore boat racing return to Winni. It was great fun watching them from the water with the helicopter following then seeing it on tv later in the year.

[fatlazyless]

Ya knows that before the 30mph-night, 45mph-day, speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee became law in June, 2008, on just about the same day as a fatal, Diamond Island motorboat collision with the rocky island shoreline, happened at about 2-am on a rainy and foggy night....... the go-fast perfomance boaters were always out on the Lake Winnipesaukee water regardless the wind, rain, weather, day or night .....they were the hard core boaters who really wanted to be boating and were almost always out there.

Now-a-days, the number of boats and especially the number of performance boats on Winnipesaukee is no where near what it used to be before the speed limits. The personality of the lake has become a much quieter and less busy lake especially during the Monday-Friday, mid-week time.

So's, where did all the go-fasts go? Did they go to Lake Winnisquam which is the third largest NH lake and which has no speed limits, plus it has a good quality, free-to-use, state boat launch in Laconia behind Boulia Gourell Lumber on the Winnipesaukee River just about 100-yards north of Lake Winnisquam. Oh well ....where have they done gone to?

[BroadHopper]

Go fast boats may be gone but they are being replace by go fast 'toons. Ugly looking compare to the Arronow designed boats. You ask for it!

[Phantom]

I think the real answer is the Economic collapse contributed to their disappearance !

It is not cheap, by any standards, to not just only purchase one- the least of the expense - but to run them. Remember it was not long ago that we had $4.75/gal gas prices.

Look in Paugus Bay at the amount of Real estate available ... in my humble opinion -- another example of the same.



and Broadhopper --- totally agree ....... SERIOUSLY, a Toon with twin 300's ?


.

[pm203]

We are still here. The lake needs rooster tails to help distribute the water properly.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by pm203

We are still here. The lake needs rooster tails to help distribute the water properly.

A little aeration!!

[pm203]

So, this year I have seen 5 new Performance boats added to the lake!! 2 Cigarettes, a Fountain and 2 new Nortechs. And, I am sure that there are more. The lake is returning to its former greatness!!

[Webbsatwinni]

Oh no, I will be edited if this thread starts up again! But yes, great to see.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by pm203

So, this year I have seen 5 new Performance boats added to the lake!! 2 Cigarettes, a Fountain and 2 new Nortechs. And, I am sure that there are more. The lake is returning to its former greatness!!

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Rusty

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

And, the Marine Patrol is not going out of their way to write speeding tickets. They realize, even if some other people do not, that speed never was the problem.

I love seeing the fast boats out there. They are enjoyable to watch and it is nice that everyone can enjoy the lake in their own way.

Live free or die!!

[BroadHopper]

According to marine patrol, speed has never been an issue! Only one ticket was issue when some bone head was speeding in the middle of the night! Something that any sane pilot would not do. The rest were for no wake, head way speed violations. Nothing new here.

There were a few citations giving when one goes the speed limit when it was not reasonable and prudent to do so. This foolishness was brought up many times but the supporters don't see this as a problem.

Having said that, I think the average speed on the lake may have increase! So has the number of violations and I don't see statistics that the lake is safer!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rusty

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

I don't think many of the GFBL boaters ever really left the lake. What you are seeing is the effect of fuel prices, and the economy. Boating as whole was down on the lake over the last couple of years. Gas Prices where high and the economy was sluggish. The economy is better, still sluggish, but better, and gas prices are down.

Even with my fuel efficient little bow rider, I was doing less boating over the last several years. And when I was boating I was not burning fuel that I didn't need to burn by running around fast. This year fuel expenses are down, the weather has been beautiful the boat is getting used, and yes I am running the boat faster and burning more fuel....

It was unfortunate that the time of the speed limit law, down turn in the economy, and rise in gas prices all came together as a package. People credit the speed limit with changes that where not really brought on by the speed limit itself.

Bottom line... GFBL boats didn't go anywhere they didn't want or intend to go anyway.... Factors such as the economy and gas prices changed the way many people used the disposable income. Thus performance boats on the lake slowed down, and weren't out as frequently... I am sure if someone had access to registry of motor vehicles, they would find that the percentage of performance boats to non performance boats registered really hasn't changed.

It funny that people believe the speed limit has made any difference at all. I still see the same nut jobs out on the lake causing the same old problems, none of which ever had anything to do with speed. I don't see anyone going any faster or slower for that matter then I did before. They only thing the speed limit has changed is perception. People Perceive the lake as safer because there is a speed limit in place. The problem is the "Cowboys" that cause the real problems are still out there, and the problems they cause have never been linked to speed.

Sorry I will step down from my soapbox.

[VitaBene]

A friend just put a Cigarette Cafe Racer on the lake, can't wait to take a ride in it!

The economy is improving, I see lots of boats at the gas dock at Ambrose Cove (I'm at $750 in fuel for the season so far miles per smile are much more important than gallons per mile/hour!)

Hope everyone has a great weekend!!

[SIKSUKR]

Do we really have to go down this path again?How many speed related deaths on Winni do we know about?a couple maybe?Certainly have been dozens of non speed related including the latest by Governors Island.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Rusty

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

It's amazing, Rusty. As I cruise in my GFBL, I have pontoon boats, bass boats and PWC's screaming by me all the time. Outrageous!

PS: Has anyone seen that orange Nor-Tech Super Cat parked at the condos just south of the NASWA? What a SWEET machine that is!

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

It's amazing, Rusty. As I cruise in my GFBL, I have pontoon boats, bass boats and PWC's screaming by me all the time. Outrageous!

PS: Has anyone seen that orange Nor-Tech Super Cat parked at the condos just south of the NASWA? What a SWEET machine that is!

i saw that being launched at Irwin on Sunday, and then saw it flying down the bay for its inaugural. I love it, want a ride in it, but don't want to own it

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

It's amazing, Rusty. As I cruise in my GFBL, I have pontoon boats, bass boats and PWC's screaming by me all the time. Outrageous!

PS: Has anyone seen that orange Nor-Tech Super Cat parked at the condos just south of the NASWA? What a SWEET machine that is!

That boat is gorgeous. I spent all day Saturday at a friend's house on Rattlesnake and saw that boat go by at what looked like WOT. It was awesome. Those surface piercing props really kick up monster rooster tails.

I saw countless boats totally ignoring the speed limit and it was great to see that people have realized that it's totally unenforceable out in the Broads.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

A little aeration!!

Developed in 1924...

Let's hear it for century-old discoveries.

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

'When boats are outlawed, only outlaws will have boats!'

Outlaw life here we come! Im preparation, does that mean that the MP and emergency crews will need to be restricted too? That could be fun!

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by Happy Gourmand

Not only that, but this is a public (well, semi public) forum. To anybody that feels they don't want to be subjected to all the finger pointing, comments, innuendoes etc, let me just suggest that you don't click on the link and read the threads and posts in this section. Problem solved.

The problem is when the thread keeps showing up in " New Posts " and someone opens it thinking there may be something new or worthwhile, only to discover the same old ranting, chest beating argument.
It would be nice if a thread that was exiled to the "special" place would stay there.
So many of the threads on this forum turn into personal beefs it gets hard to know what is safe to read.
And it's really annoying when you read something nasty when you didn't plan on it, then say something about it, and someone on the forum jumps in and basically tells you to not read it.

[HellRaZoR004]

CL is referring to the New Post tab at the very top of the page (left of the Search Tool).

CL, look at the forum column at the far right of that page. The Lake Issues forum will show up. Just don't click on threads in that forum. Or just ignore this thread entirely....

ps. You'll also notice the following statement the next time you visit if you don't open threads "The threads below have not been updated since your last visit but still contain unread posts.". Eventually it will fall to a different page entirely

[DEJ]

Thanks, that explains it, I was not aware of the new posts feature. So there you have it CL, if you do not like what goes on in the lake forums section then please do not read those posts.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Wow, as I posted in earlier, there are a lot of things I miss about living in NH, but this isn't one of them.

Think I'm going to go boating

[Rusty]

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

[MGWillia]

Well, looking for the upside... Hey, didn't that guy do a great job mounting that camera!?

[tis]

It's funny how the more controversial thread draw the most people. Like it or not, it's true. Still, I don't know why people have to be nasty to each other. Can't we disagree without being mean? I guess we can't, look at the world.

[Chaselady]

I agree. I am so done. Adios...

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

[Phantom]

NOW

That's funny & sooo appropriate PaugusBayFireFighter !!
(thanks for the morning chuckle)



.

[LIforrelaxin]

It bothers me that the threads are viewed negatively by so many. I for that I am sorry that they end up on this and other forums. But understand, for some of us, that report and write based on Facts, that this is the only place some of our opposition comes out and attacks us.

In many debates over sound, speed, boat size, etc. I have and will always being willing to sit down and talk with anyone, to understand their side of the situation. Yes as is human nature I have my side, and I will not be not easy change my view. But I will always listen, and look for compromises to give both sides satisfaction.

I have spent a great deal of personal time, money and effort into trying to make sure the boating laws, on Winnipesaukee are reasonable, and fair to all involved. I have had conversations with State Congressional Representatives, Marine Patrol officers, Marina owners, and even Boat owners that wanted to talk. Those talks have always remained positive and constructive. However on here, they break down, and those that break them down, never seem interested in sitting down over breakfast and having a healthy two sided conversation, knowing that I will not change their mind, nor will they change mine, but maybe just maybe we will find comprimise.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

Yes this was an unfortunate accident but here are some facts:
-- this didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee.
-- This happened at the Lake of the Ozarks, during an annual event, (this wasn't some random weekend accident)
-- This didn't happen this summer it happened several years ago
-- There are lessons to be learned from this video, like always where your saftey lanyard.

Why is it people are always digging up the past......and using scare tactics..... once again, I don't do this, I just provide facts.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Yes this was an unfortunate accident but here are some facts:
-- this didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee.
-- This happened at the Lake of the Ozarks, during an annual event, (this wasn't some random weekend accident)
-- This didn't happen this summer it happened several years ago
-- There are lessons to be learned from this video, like always where your saftey lanyard.

Why is it people are always digging up the past......and using scare tactics..... once again, I don't do this, I just provide facts.

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

[Woodsy]

Rusty....

You could not be more wrong..... WOW! More OPINION posted as FACT!

An accident like that can happen at any time on any lake! A speed limit has nothing to do with it.

The boat in question here most likely spun out due to driver error... this can happen in ANY boat while on plane. Let go of the steering wheel on some boats and the prop torque causes the boats to heel over hard... A gimble can break on the transom... lots of things can cause an accident like this.

But, to be truthful, spin outs are seen quite a bit in boats with a step in the hull. Lots of the newer small/mid sized family runabouts have stepped hulls as well as most modern hi-performance boats.

This video is a pretty good learning tool.... what the driver did right was have his kill switch lanyard attached. What the driver did wrong was just about everything else.. most importantly his passengers were not secure in their seats. The girl standing up is lucky she did not get seriously injured.

Again... if you are going to offer opinion as fact, you will get called out on it!

Woodsy

[BroadHopper]

Just ask Ralph Nader and his Nader Raiders. Any craft regardless of what propels it is unsafe at any speed! Even Kayakers and SUP users can be killed. Speed has nothing to do with it. Inattentive, inexperience and influenced drivers are mostly to blame. Problem is putting a limit to speed and distance between boats only delay the inevitable. Not prevent it.

Things like safety lanyards, Safety courses, tougher DUI laws and other similar laws can go a long way to making the lake safer. Not limits like speed, horsepower, size and distance.

The fire is on!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Just ask Ralph Nader and his Nader Raiders. Any craft regardless of what propels it is unsafe at any speed! Even Kayakers and SUP users can be killed. Speed has nothing to do with it. Inattentive, inexperience and influenced drivers are mostly to blame. Problem is putting a limit to speed and distance between boats only delay the inevitable. Not prevent it.

Things like safety lanyards, Safety courses, tougher DUI laws and other similar laws can go a long way to making the lake safer. Not limits like speed, horsepower, size and distance.

The fire is on!

Everything that you say is factual but if someone says "speed is unsafe" then it isn't factual and there shouldn't be any limits on it. This is too funny to be real.
The fact of the matter is that there is a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and I'm glad that there is.
The video that I posted "could" have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee if there wasn't a law against going that fast. Call it what you want but that my friend is a "fact".

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Everything that you say is factual but if someone says "speed is unsafe" then it isn't factual and there shouldn't be any limits on it. This is too funny to be real.
The fact of the matter is that there is a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and I'm glad that there is.
The video that I posted "could" have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee if there wasn't a law against going that fast. Call it what you want but that my friend is a "fact".

Rusty...

Walking is unsafe given the proper conditions.... Pretty much everything a person does during the day could be considered unsafe... take a shower this morning? VERY unsafe given the accident stats! Drive your car today? Driving your car is statistically very dangerous! Even if you did obey every single speed limit and traffic law! LOL

If you are for a speed limit, good for you. You are entitled to that OPINION! If you want to think that the accident in the video didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee because of a speed limit.. You are entitled to that OPINION!

If you want to state that the reason that accident didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee is because of the speed limit as FACT.... I am going to call you out on it!

Where is the proof that NO accidents like that have happened since the speed limit? Where is the STUDY that the Lake is safer because of it? Where are the FACTS??

Oh wait... you don't have any! You just have your OPINION.

Sorry that just doesn't cut it for me...

Woodsy

[Rusty]

Everything I say is an opinion and everything you say is backed up with facts. Fair enough, have a good day.

[Woodsy]

Rusty...

I can back up every statement I have made... I can provide links and you can research it the same way I have. Its not an issue.

Its like political ads we are being inundated with... both sides have a story/opinion, but where are the UNBIASED FACTS??

Woodsy

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Rusty

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

Yeah, thank GOD for "Winifabs" (sic), Rusty. They will go down in history as the BEST organization that was able to pull the wool over the inept NH Legislature. That same organization whose last name is "safety", but their agenda had nothing to do with safety. That same organization that knows how to spin facts into nonsense. Yes, Rusty, thank GOD we have them. (Just like we thank GOD we have the best President in history in the White House right now.)

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Yeah, thank GOD for "Winifabs" (sic), Rusty. They will go down in history as the BEST organization that was able to pull the wool over the inept NH Legislature. That same organization whose last name is "safety", but their agenda had nothing to do with safety. That same organization that knows how to spin facts into nonsense. Yes, Rusty, thank GOD we have them. (Just like we thank GOD we have the best President in history in the White House right now.)

How does the OP's statement turn into a snide remark about the President?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Happy Gourmand

How does the OP's statement turn into a snide remark about the President?

Read Post # 32 in this thread and you will find your answer:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...sident+history

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rusty

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

This is not a Fact.... the definition of Fact from dictionary.com is:

noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth:
Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened:
Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened:
The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5.
Law.. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.
Compare question of fact, question of law.

This is an opinion which is defined by dictionary.com as:

a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3.
the formal expression of a professional judgment:
to ask for a second medical opinion.
4.
Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5.
a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.:
to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6.
a favorable estimate; esteem:
I haven't much of an opinion of him.


These definition are indeed FACT....

The accident that happened on Lake of the Ozarks is FACT

The idea that a similar accident will not happen on Winnipesaukee, now because of the work of WinnFABS, is opinion.... and what you allude too....

Please Note that in my post I have not given my opinion on weather or not a accident like that could happen on Winnipesaukee. Your opinion of me and my beliefs may lead you to believe that I don't think it could happen on Winnipesaukee, But the FACT is, I know that things can go wrong at any speed, and for a verity of reasons, something similar could still very easily happen on Lake Winnipesuakee.

My reasons however don't just look at one item that I have a prejudice against. As has been spelled out here, a violent pitch of a boat on plane going over waves could happen from the following:

- Driver inexperience
- Boat poorly trimmed
- boat poorly loaded
- misjudgement of condition even from experienced skipper
- mechanical malfunction

Once again none of this is opinion it is all FACT......... Based on what can cause a boat to erratically pitch......One or all of these can lead to a problem just like in the video, at less then the current speed limit on the lake.

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

.....One or all of these can lead to a problem just like in the video, at less then the current speed limit on the lake.

That sums it up.

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by Rusty

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

Very one-sided, there were many accidents this year ranging from an older gentleman hitting a kayak near rattlesnake and a few prop injuries (What would Winfabbs do to help keep us safe from those?). There will always be accidents, some are stupidity, some accidents, etc. Is speed a contributing factor, yes, but so are untrained boaters, alcohol, on board distractions, etc.

Laying all of the blame for accidents on speed is a thin cover for other agendas. The reality is that most performance boat owners adhere to safety regulations and boat maintenance than the average boater, more to protect their investment than anything but it is what I have observed.