Performance Boats

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by Happy Gourmand

Not only that, but this is a public (well, semi public) forum. To anybody that feels they don't want to be subjected to all the finger pointing, comments, innuendoes etc, let me just suggest that you don't click on the link and read the threads and posts in this section. Problem solved.

The problem is when the thread keeps showing up in " New Posts " and someone opens it thinking there may be something new or worthwhile, only to discover the same old ranting, chest beating argument.
It would be nice if a thread that was exiled to the "special" place would stay there.
So many of the threads on this forum turn into personal beefs it gets hard to know what is safe to read.
And it's really annoying when you read something nasty when you didn't plan on it, then say something about it, and someone on the forum jumps in and basically tells you to not read it.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

Well, keep things safe till I get there. I may not be boating now, but I sure would love to when I get there! Hold the Fort!

Don't be discouraged, at its worst, Lake Winnipesaukee is still a wonderful place to go boating. We are really spoiled here, boating in other popular areas is vastly more hectic and challenging. Other than a few choke points, public docks and popular sand bars, the lake is very uncrowded, even on holiday weekends.

[DEJ]

For CL, the following disclaimer is placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

So CL if you visit the "lake issues" section be prepared to read something nasty. If those discussions annoy you then do not visit the lakes issues section, stay in the more friendly areas of this site, pretty simple and your blood pressure will be lower.

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by DEJ

For CL, the following disclaimer is placed directly below the "LAKE ISSUES" title:

This separated forum is provided for the discussion and debate about controversial issues that effect the Lakes Region but are discouraged from the other more friendly areas. Debates about speed limits, no-wake zones, noise and general complaints and griping belong here. Threads in other forums that turn into arguments may be moved here.

So CL if you visit the "lake issues" section be prepared to read something nasty. If those discussions annoy you then do not visit the lakes issues section, stay in the more friendly areas of this site, pretty simple and your blood pressure will be lower.

I was talking about " New Posts". First page. Not the special section under forums from where you pulled that disclaimer.

[DEJ]

Not sure what you mean by New posts first page. In any event the Lakes issue forum can get nasty. If they offend you simply do not visit that forum was my message to you.

[MGWillia]

The good thing about following this thread this long is, (yes I know it's posted on the forums, but I just have been hitting new post) But, I now know, why Webbsatwinni was upset that his post was moved. I was like "Well, they are talking about boats, so doesn't it belong in the Boat Issues vs just in General"... Well Now I know. And that's a good thing. I like a lively debate. Good to know there is a place for it. Thanks

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Not sure what you mean by New posts first page. In any event the Lakes issue forum can get nasty. If they offend you simply do not visit that forum was my message to you.

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

I like a lively debate. Good to know there is a place for it. Thanks

Welcome, glad you get the intent of the lake issues section on this site. Some here still do not get it.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

I read it several times and was still confused. I only have one page and the lake issues is on the first page. Perhaps you have a different setting than I do. In any event the lake issues section usually has nasty posts, if that annoys you do not visit that section.

[HellRaZoR004]

CL is referring to the New Post tab at the very top of the page (left of the Search Tool).

CL, look at the forum column at the far right of that page. The Lake Issues forum will show up. Just don't click on threads in that forum. Or just ignore this thread entirely....

ps. You'll also notice the following statement the next time you visit if you don't open threads "The threads below have not been updated since your last visit but still contain unread posts.". Eventually it will fall to a different page entirely

[DEJ]

Thanks, that explains it, I was not aware of the new posts feature. So there you have it CL, if you do not like what goes on in the lake forums section then please do not read those posts.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Wow, as I posted in earlier, there are a lot of things I miss about living in NH, but this isn't one of them.

Think I'm going to go boating

[Rusty]

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

[MGWillia]

Well, looking for the upside... Hey, didn't that guy do a great job mounting that camera!?

[tis]

It's funny how the more controversial thread draw the most people. Like it or not, it's true. Still, I don't know why people have to be nasty to each other. Can't we disagree without being mean? I guess we can't, look at the world.

[Chaselady]

I agree. I am so done. Adios...

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

[Phantom]

NOW

That's funny & sooo appropriate PaugusBayFireFighter !!
(thanks for the morning chuckle)



.

[LIforrelaxin]

It bothers me that the threads are viewed negatively by so many. I for that I am sorry that they end up on this and other forums. But understand, for some of us, that report and write based on Facts, that this is the only place some of our opposition comes out and attacks us.

In many debates over sound, speed, boat size, etc. I have and will always being willing to sit down and talk with anyone, to understand their side of the situation. Yes as is human nature I have my side, and I will not be not easy change my view. But I will always listen, and look for compromises to give both sides satisfaction.

I have spent a great deal of personal time, money and effort into trying to make sure the boating laws, on Winnipesaukee are reasonable, and fair to all involved. I have had conversations with State Congressional Representatives, Marine Patrol officers, Marina owners, and even Boat owners that wanted to talk. Those talks have always remained positive and constructive. However on here, they break down, and those that break them down, never seem interested in sitting down over breakfast and having a healthy two sided conversation, knowing that I will not change their mind, nor will they change mine, but maybe just maybe we will find comprimise.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

Yes this was an unfortunate accident but here are some facts:
-- this didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee.
-- This happened at the Lake of the Ozarks, during an annual event, (this wasn't some random weekend accident)
-- This didn't happen this summer it happened several years ago
-- There are lessons to be learned from this video, like always where your saftey lanyard.

Why is it people are always digging up the past......and using scare tactics..... once again, I don't do this, I just provide facts.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Yes this was an unfortunate accident but here are some facts:
-- this didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee.
-- This happened at the Lake of the Ozarks, during an annual event, (this wasn't some random weekend accident)
-- This didn't happen this summer it happened several years ago
-- There are lessons to be learned from this video, like always where your saftey lanyard.

Why is it people are always digging up the past......and using scare tactics..... once again, I don't do this, I just provide facts.

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

[Woodsy]

Rusty....

You could not be more wrong..... WOW! More OPINION posted as FACT!

An accident like that can happen at any time on any lake! A speed limit has nothing to do with it.

The boat in question here most likely spun out due to driver error... this can happen in ANY boat while on plane. Let go of the steering wheel on some boats and the prop torque causes the boats to heel over hard... A gimble can break on the transom... lots of things can cause an accident like this.

But, to be truthful, spin outs are seen quite a bit in boats with a step in the hull. Lots of the newer small/mid sized family runabouts have stepped hulls as well as most modern hi-performance boats.

This video is a pretty good learning tool.... what the driver did right was have his kill switch lanyard attached. What the driver did wrong was just about everything else.. most importantly his passengers were not secure in their seats. The girl standing up is lucky she did not get seriously injured.

Again... if you are going to offer opinion as fact, you will get called out on it!

Woodsy

[BroadHopper]

Just ask Ralph Nader and his Nader Raiders. Any craft regardless of what propels it is unsafe at any speed! Even Kayakers and SUP users can be killed. Speed has nothing to do with it. Inattentive, inexperience and influenced drivers are mostly to blame. Problem is putting a limit to speed and distance between boats only delay the inevitable. Not prevent it.

Things like safety lanyards, Safety courses, tougher DUI laws and other similar laws can go a long way to making the lake safer. Not limits like speed, horsepower, size and distance.

The fire is on!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Just ask Ralph Nader and his Nader Raiders. Any craft regardless of what propels it is unsafe at any speed! Even Kayakers and SUP users can be killed. Speed has nothing to do with it. Inattentive, inexperience and influenced drivers are mostly to blame. Problem is putting a limit to speed and distance between boats only delay the inevitable. Not prevent it.

Things like safety lanyards, Safety courses, tougher DUI laws and other similar laws can go a long way to making the lake safer. Not limits like speed, horsepower, size and distance.

The fire is on!

Everything that you say is factual but if someone says "speed is unsafe" then it isn't factual and there shouldn't be any limits on it. This is too funny to be real.
The fact of the matter is that there is a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and I'm glad that there is.
The video that I posted "could" have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee if there wasn't a law against going that fast. Call it what you want but that my friend is a "fact".

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Rusty

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

Yeah, thank GOD for "Winifabs" (sic), Rusty. They will go down in history as the BEST organization that was able to pull the wool over the inept NH Legislature. That same organization whose last name is "safety", but their agenda had nothing to do with safety. That same organization that knows how to spin facts into nonsense. Yes, Rusty, thank GOD we have them. (Just like we thank GOD we have the best President in history in the White House right now.)

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Yeah, thank GOD for "Winifabs" (sic), Rusty. They will go down in history as the BEST organization that was able to pull the wool over the inept NH Legislature. That same organization whose last name is "safety", but their agenda had nothing to do with safety. That same organization that knows how to spin facts into nonsense. Yes, Rusty, thank GOD we have them. (Just like we thank GOD we have the best President in history in the White House right now.)

How does the OP's statement turn into a snide remark about the President?

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Everything that you say is factual but if someone says "speed is unsafe" then it isn't factual and there shouldn't be any limits on it. This is too funny to be real.
The fact of the matter is that there is a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and I'm glad that there is.
The video that I posted "could" have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee if there wasn't a law against going that fast. Call it what you want but that my friend is a "fact".

Rusty...

Walking is unsafe given the proper conditions.... Pretty much everything a person does during the day could be considered unsafe... take a shower this morning? VERY unsafe given the accident stats! Drive your car today? Driving your car is statistically very dangerous! Even if you did obey every single speed limit and traffic law! LOL

If you are for a speed limit, good for you. You are entitled to that OPINION! If you want to think that the accident in the video didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee because of a speed limit.. You are entitled to that OPINION!

If you want to state that the reason that accident didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee is because of the speed limit as FACT.... I am going to call you out on it!

Where is the proof that NO accidents like that have happened since the speed limit? Where is the STUDY that the Lake is safer because of it? Where are the FACTS??

Oh wait... you don't have any! You just have your OPINION.

Sorry that just doesn't cut it for me...

Woodsy

[Rusty]

Everything I say is an opinion and everything you say is backed up with facts. Fair enough, have a good day.

[Woodsy]

Rusty...

I can back up every statement I have made... I can provide links and you can research it the same way I have. Its not an issue.

Its like political ads we are being inundated with... both sides have a story/opinion, but where are the UNBIASED FACTS??

Woodsy

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Happy Gourmand

How does the OP's statement turn into a snide remark about the President?

Read Post # 32 in this thread and you will find your answer:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...sident+history

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

'When boats are outlawed, only outlaws will have boats!'

Outlaw life here we come! Im preparation, does that mean that the MP and emergency crews will need to be restricted too? That could be fun!

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Chaselady

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

I only use the "new posts" tab. Its clearly labeled Boating Issues on the right side of the thread. Let it go and stop reading threads you don't like. Much more annoying to a lot of us is when people whine about this stuff in those particular threads when it is CLEARLY labeled for them to see which ones to avoid.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rusty

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

This is not a Fact.... the definition of Fact from dictionary.com is:

noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth:
Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened:
Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened:
The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5.
Law.. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.
Compare question of fact, question of law.

This is an opinion which is defined by dictionary.com as:

a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3.
the formal expression of a professional judgment:
to ask for a second medical opinion.
4.
Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5.
a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.:
to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6.
a favorable estimate; esteem:
I haven't much of an opinion of him.


These definition are indeed FACT....

The accident that happened on Lake of the Ozarks is FACT

The idea that a similar accident will not happen on Winnipesaukee, now because of the work of WinnFABS, is opinion.... and what you allude too....

Please Note that in my post I have not given my opinion on weather or not a accident like that could happen on Winnipesaukee. Your opinion of me and my beliefs may lead you to believe that I don't think it could happen on Winnipesaukee, But the FACT is, I know that things can go wrong at any speed, and for a verity of reasons, something similar could still very easily happen on Lake Winnipesuakee.

My reasons however don't just look at one item that I have a prejudice against. As has been spelled out here, a violent pitch of a boat on plane going over waves could happen from the following:

- Driver inexperience
- Boat poorly trimmed
- boat poorly loaded
- misjudgement of condition even from experienced skipper
- mechanical malfunction

Once again none of this is opinion it is all FACT......... Based on what can cause a boat to erratically pitch......One or all of these can lead to a problem just like in the video, at less then the current speed limit on the lake.

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

.....One or all of these can lead to a problem just like in the video, at less then the current speed limit on the lake.

That sums it up.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I only use the "new posts" tab. Its clearly labeled Boating Issues on the right side of the thread. Let it go and stop reading threads you don't like. Much more annoying to a lot of us is when people whine about this stuff in those particular threads when it is CLEARLY labeled for them to see which ones to avoid.

Oh, jeez. Now I know why Chaselady wants to leave. Couldn't you use a little more tact? Aren't you just whining about whiners?😯

[ApS]

​

Originally Posted by Chaselady

Try reading my post again. The performance boats thread repeatedly shows up in the new post section. Why doesn't it stay on the 2nd page under lake issues?

There's been a change. Perhaps the forum can stick with one issue, which was excessive boat exhaust noise. I'd like to see the electronic noise-dampening pioneered by Lotus cars applied to noisy boats.

Originally Posted by Rusty

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

I've been gone for 24 hours, and now we're on another old, and even violent topic! That said, the video's "comments" section includes the observation that one of the victims had said to "Hide the beer cans".
I never before had seen the blue-shirted photographer apparently vomiting over the transom.

If you want to state that the reason that accident didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee is because of the speed limit as FACT.... I am going to call you out on it!

But, it has happened recently. If you go to that video, notice that the violence of the crash tore the anchor loose, which smashed the windshield. A collision here with Diamond Island resulted in the anchor striking a lakefront house!

"Crashes" have been mentioned here before—along with the recommendation to "Take a Performance-Boat Skills Course offered by Tres Martin" (You may select your favorite lake). Only one member here has passed that course, as evidenced by at least three factual "self-sinkings" by "performance boats" on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Back to "exhaust noise".

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I viewed the video's there is no comparison to make.... The conditions are not the same.... I will give up on trying to reason with you, as both Woodsy and I have tried to explain the reality here...... the lake is no noisier, with the switchable exhaust now legal.

My one point was that the noise law was changed to dockside testing—which changes everything. A $250 fine for noise violations is ludicrous: a weekend gas-up for ocean-racers goes for less.

Bottom line in a stationary test dockside the MP will evaluate exhaust noise, on the loudest setting.... if the boat passes, then the switched exhaust setting will only be quieter...

Then why has the NHMP reserved the right to perform "fly-by" testing as the follow-up alternative? I'd like to see a factual response.

Switchable exhaust only makes the lake quieter....

Same as above: the NHMP has reserved the right to perform "fly-by" testing as an alternative. Why that reservation?

But Personally I would rather the MP spend their time looking for serious safety violations... and educating boaters.... not administering noise tests.

Too often, those are "one-and-the-same". In coves, harbors, bays, and inlets that were formerly quiet, exhaust noise has only become an issue in the last 20 years.

Unfortunately for you, your videos.... they prove nothing. Other than some boats were out enjoying the lake and they annoyed you enough for you to video them.

My camera has no special powers, but the videos are intended to prove fact. It's up to individual viewers to decide if the point has been made.

This opinion still stands:

For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by Rusty

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

Very one-sided, there were many accidents this year ranging from an older gentleman hitting a kayak near rattlesnake and a few prop injuries (What would Winfabbs do to help keep us safe from those?). There will always be accidents, some are stupidity, some accidents, etc. Is speed a contributing factor, yes, but so are untrained boaters, alcohol, on board distractions, etc.

Laying all of the blame for accidents on speed is a thin cover for other agendas. The reality is that most performance boat owners adhere to safety regulations and boat maintenance than the average boater, more to protect their investment than anything but it is what I have observed.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

​

I never before had seen the blue-shirted photographer apparently vomiting over the transom.

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up. First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom. I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event. However he was working and doing what his boss told him to do, which was ride and film that boat.

Originally Posted by ApS

​
But, it has happened recently. If you go to that video, notice that the violence of the crash tore the anchor loose, which smashed the windshield.

I see no anchor being torn loose in this video, I do see the accident, the boat was in the ocean and hit some big waves, and they did wash over the bow of the boat, but I don't see a broken windshield and don't see an anchor flying around either.

APS I am not trying to be rude here, but you seem to be making a lot of conjuncture here, with no proof to back it up.

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up.

Just saw this video for the first time. Golly it looked so much fun. His passengers seemed terrified and were holding on for dear life...until the captain way over estimated his abilities to handle the boat and speed. Of course had he been going 45 MPH......he would have avoided the accident.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

Of course had he been going 45 MPH......he would have avoided the accident.

Perhaps, but that is like saying if we all drove our cars at 10 MPH, we would avoid accidents.

This viral video is a case of an operator who was over-matched by his vessel and the conditions. His boat was made to run at speed in rough conditions, he was not.

If you ever get a chance take a run across the broads in a similar boat at 45 in 4' ers to see and feel the difference in control and ride compared to the average 21' boat on the lake.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom.

I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event.

If it was in the "comments" section on Youtube, you really can't dispute that.

Youtube Comments = Facts.

[ishoot308]

Does anyone really know how fast the boat was going?? In my opinion I doubt he was going more than 50 mph, if he was, I think the crash would have been a lot more violent.

Speed wasn't the cause of this mishap... bad judgement, inexperienced Captain and plain old stupidity are!...

Dan

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Does anyone really know how fast the boat was going?? In my opinion I doubt he was going more than 50 mph, if he was, I think the crash would have been a lot more violent.

Speed wasn't the cause of this mishap... bad judgement, inexperienced Captain and plain old stupidity are!...

Dan

On the performance boat forums it was 51-53 mph, it's forum info, so not substantiated.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Does anyone really know how fast the boat was going?? In my opinion I doubt he was going more than 50 mph, if he was, I think the crash would have been a lot more violent.

Speed wasn't the cause of this mishap... bad judgement, inexperienced Captain and plain old stupidity are!...

Dan

http://archive.news-leader.com/inter...-OF-THE-OZARKS

The driver, Marvin Carter of Memphis, Tenn., was cited with careless and imprudent operation following the Aug. 24 incident. But when the video of the accident was uploaded to YouTube on Aug. 31, he received another citation.

“After seeing the video, he was charged with a seating violation,” said Sgt. Jerry Callahan of the Missouri State Highway Patrol’s Water Division.

Callahan said that Carter estimated he was traveling 70 mph when the accident occurred.

Brett Tintera, a cameraman with LakeTV who was on the boat, disagreed with that estimate and said that Carter had floored the boat moments before the accident.

“We were doing over 100,” said Tintera, who added in a phone interview Wednesday that he’s been boating for over 20 years and dealing with high performance craft for the last half dozen. “When you open the throttles up, you go way higher than 60-70 mph.”

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Perhaps, but that is like saying if we all drove our cars at 10 MPH, we would avoid accidents.

This viral video is a case of an operator who was over-matched by his vessel and the conditions. His boat was made to run at speed in rough conditions, he was not.

Watch the video and watch the throttle. He has it wide open and the result was that the boat, operator and his passengers could not handle it....least not without injury. If he had been going 45 which btw would have been to fast when he hit the wake but if he was he proably would not have fallen down like a drunk sailor. He was damn lucky he did not kill people.

And no....it is not saying that if you drove at 10 mph we would avoid accidents. It is saying that if operate within the speed limits we are safer then IF WE put the pedal to the metal. I think that is just common sense.

[BroadHopper]

Any vehicle is unsafe at ANY SPEED.

What's the point?

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Any vehicle is unsafe at ANY SPEED.

What's the point?

They have no point, just trying to stir the pot. Please do not feed the trolls as hard as it might be sometimes.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by DEJ

They have no point, just trying to stir the pot. Please do not feed the trolls as hard as it might be sometimes.

I guess my only point as a "troll" is that as a general rule Lake Winnipesaukee should not see GFBL vessels going 70-100 MPH anymore.
The testing grounds for how fast a boat can go are over on this Lake.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Rusty

The testing grounds for how fast a boat can go are over on this Lake.

That is correct. The lake is now safe due to the 45mph day time and 30mph night time speed limit.

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by DEJ

They have no point, just trying to stir the pot. Please do not feed the trolls as hard as it might be sometimes.

I really have no issue on way or the other but sorry, common sense says the boat in the video was going way to fast FOR the CONDITIONS...otherwise it does not happen. A smarter captain would have slowed down versus going full throttle. This was an issue of speed. Not sure I understand why or how anyone can rationally argue differently, yet it seems that some do and I respect their opinion and do not feel the need to call them trolls.

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by DEJ

That is correct. The lake is now safe due to the 45mph day time and 30mph night time speed limit.

Lake is still a crazy place on a buys day BUT yes it is now safer than it was before!

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

Lake is still a crazy place on a buys day BUT yes it is now safer than it was before!

And we still have one death too many. I don't see the lake any safer!

[ApS]

​

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Ok so once again I see conjecture...with no FACTs to back it up. First of all I don't see the blue shirted photographer vomiting... I see him leaned over resting his head on the sundeck of the boat. the sundeck is not the transom. I have seen an interview with said photographer, who made reference to the fact that the driver of the boat made him uncomfortable during that event. However he was working and doing what his boss told him to do, which was ride and film that boat.

"Working", but suffered bruised ribs, a broken leg, a ruptured disc and a broken wrist! He appears somewhat paler than at the beginning of the video. Maybe he was "resting his head" but had suffered four+ injuries, and vomiting can happen in traumatic events. I hadn't noticed earlier, but the gal in the white suit is behaving similarly.

It was left to the white-shirted "Fury-Racing" guy to shut the camera down.



The "driver" suffered [skull] damage to the orbits of his eyes.

Details from another powerboat forum:

In addition to breaking a leg and a wrist, [photographer] Tintera says he ruptured a disc in his back and bruised some ribs. Among other injuries sustained by the passengers Tintera counts a broken back, a couple shattered eye sockets, and hips, feet, legs and arms all snapped as the boat shook violently back and forth before coming to a halt.

Tintera's footage has been seen over 3 million times at this point. He says Anderson Cooper invited him to appear on CNN, but he's too busted up to make the trip. The story also made Good Morning America, CBS News, the New York Post and a GIF made of the moment of impact appeared on Tosh.0's blog.

"Is it me or have Budweiser ads gotten kind of violent lately?" Tosh wrote.

Though Tintera understands the voyeuristic appeal of the footage, he's not exactly laughing. He considers himself lucky to be alive.

"If anyone would have been thrown out who knows what would have happened. Probably death," he says. "I'm very lucky to be talking and able to hobble around."

More eye-witness testimony...

The above participants in this seven-passenger "ocean-racer" were described as part of a Poker Run.

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I see no anchor being torn loose in this video, I do see the accident, the boat was in the ocean and hit some big waves, and they did wash over the bow of the boat, but I don't see a broken windshield and don't see an anchor flying around either.

I've seen this video before, but on a much sharper monitor: watch at 5:48—the foredeck hatch flies open. Shortly, the anchor flies out—still attached with chain—strikes the windshield frame—and disappears into the spray.



The Internet carries dozens of videos of the earlier seven-passenger crash, but in addition to several other worthwhile "boating adventures", this one carries a far better audio: (That is, if you like the sound of the engines followed by the clear sounds of multiple injuries.)

http://jukinvideo.com/videos/focus/C...VZhlu5ze5Cz74x

In addition to the Internet's many slow-motion segments, the GIF below is notable for fast-tracking the height of the action: watch the gal in yellow. Did she damage the windshield frame with her chin? Then bend the throttles with her ribs?



Her sunglasses go flying, do a "bank-shot" off the windshield frame, and end up back in the boat!


.

[SIKSUKR]

Showing that video over and over to make your speed limit point is laughable.I could show you 1000 times as many of car crashes.Makes no sense.

[Not to Worry]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Showing that video over and over to make your speed limit point is laughable.I could show you 1000 times as many of car crashes.Makes no sense.

I guess this really is beating a dead horse but this video is clearly a result of speed...something they knew they were about to do since they videoed themselves. Simple physics would prove the slower (45 MPH) allows more reaction time. That is a fact not a conjecture.

The Speed Limit does make the lake "safer" but since we cannot outlaw boneheads and just everyday people who make mistakes that can have bad outcomes does not alter the fact the 45 MPH is safer than going 100 MPH. I had a situation where it was dusk and I did not see the boat in front of me...we were both on a collision course...he either did not see me or did not care...I saw the boat in time and it was no big deal...but I was only going 30 MPH...if I had been traveling at 90 MPH I would have made the news. Slower gave me much more time to react and correct my error of not seeing the boat sooner.

I do not really understand why we all accept speed limits on the road and skimobile trails yet somehow a common sense speed limit on the lake does not. I would assume the speed limit and noise limit are here to stay so maybe it is time to move on.

BTW....many sections of the inland waterway is heavily restricted in terms of speed...with many, many sections limited to no wake or minimum wake.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

I had a situation where it was dusk and I did not see the boat in front of me...we were both on a collision course...he either did not see me or did not care...I saw the boat in time and it was no big deal...but I was only going 30 MPH...if I had been traveling at 90 MPH I would have made the news. Slower gave me much more time to react and correct my error of not seeing the boat sooner.

The other boater may have seen you perfectly well... which vessel was stand-on? I unfortunately, have been stand-on too many times and not been "given away" to and had to change my course. My friend was stand-on in Alton this summer and was hit hard on his port side.

The 'old "speed limit was essentially "reasonable and prudent for the conditions". The new SL says 45 or 30, however, either speed may be too fast for the conditions, but can easily give someone the defense of "but I was going the speed limit".

The SL is the SL, it is not going to change- we are beating a dead horse. But when people post a viral video of a poor boater, not on this lake, and try to make it something out of it, that it is not, people may respond.

[BroadHopper]

With the limited manpower you would think it make sense to beef up the DUI laws, and other laws in existence rather than run around the lake looking for speeders. In fact since the law has pass there seem to be more boneheads on the lake, probably because of this. We are actually on the wrong track!

Since Winnfibs told the legislature that the lake is safe, they really assume that and future legislation are not needed. I didn't make this up as I have talk to a number of them in the halls and that is the impression! Again false signals that actually make the lake more dangerous!

[LIforrelaxin]

I find myself in awe here, at where this thread has gone. I know I have played a part in that. But the bottom line is the bottom line.... We now have a speed limit law and it is what it is. We also have a noise law, and it is what it is....

If people break those laws they get into trouble if they are caught.

Don't say these laws aren't good enough, or try to defended them with scare tactics.

The battles over these trivial things has tainted the lake enough as it is. Everyone has their own opinion, and should be able to voice it. Make sure the Facts are Facts and not conjecture or opinion when you do so, and we will find that we all get along better.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

I've seen this video before, but on a much sharper monitor: watch at 5:48—the foredeck hatch flies open. Shortly, the anchor flies out—still attached with chain—strikes the windshield frame—and disappears into the spray.



.

APS, at 5:48 this video is over.... the scenes that you refer to happen between 1:00 and 2:00 mins.... I have watched several times, and I will agree that you do see the "anchor hatch" open, however I don't see an evidence of a flying anchor. This video is extremely poor quality, so it is incredibly hard to say anything concrete....

I can certainly conjecture, as you have done, but it is simply conjecture without any proof... hence I will not conjecture.... the fact of this video, is that the boat was in turbulent water, and the passengers and boat paid the price.

[fatlazyless]

Well......I have brought this up before and always it gets totally ignored.....so not having anything better to do and being totally bored out of my mind I will bring it up again.....

...what Lake Winnipesaukee needs is a "no speed limit zone" on Sundays from nine to noon out on the broads!


That could be a fun area to go watch as a spectator boat, supposedly safe from behind the boundary marker buoys, as the big super-duper big-money go-fasts roar back and forth real fast.... like at 107-mph, gps confirmed! .... what a super suggestion.....ladies & gentlemen.....puh-lease start your engines!!!!

[Rusty]

If this Vermont candidate gets elected she wants all motor boats taken off Lake Champlain. At 1:35 into the video she talks about it. She's my type of candidate.

[ApS]

Now I'm curious what could have happened at Lake Champlain to bring this issue to such prominence in Vermont politics.

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

APS, at 5:48 this video is over.... the scenes that you refer to happen between 1:00 and 2:00 mins.... I have watched several times, and I will agree that you do see the "anchor hatch" open, however I don't see an evidence of a flying anchor. This video is extremely poor quality, so it is incredibly hard to say anything concrete....

You are correct: the video with the sharp images was located at ​http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155180898; however, that site is no longer available—"404".

I found references to the crash from a speedboat website that is now closed to public viewing of, the um..., speed, alcohol, drug, and moral "indiscretions" of their many members. Other sites bemoaned the helicopters, as the need to show off for an aerial video camera appears too great to resist.

The screenshot follows, with the areas highlighted in yellow of most interest:



.

Which is not to say, they are not without humor in the same thread:

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

I can certainly conjecture, as you have done, but it is simply conjecture without any proof... hence I will not conjecture.... the fact of this video, is that the boat was in turbulent water, and the passengers and boat paid the price.

Again, the video and the accompanying narrative (above) is presented for members' perusal. Sometimes, proving a fact with videos and screenshots can't convince some viewers.


SIKSUKR, the driver that crossed 2½ lanes, then struck the rear of a stopped truck, and then was struck in turn by the dash-cam truck survived the ordeal! The torn roof of her car flew up to the truck's windshield, and appears below. A witness to the wreck also crossed over to the far right lane and stopped—to perhaps render EMT aid—or maybe leave a business card of his law firm.


Dash-cams have brought much scrutiny to inexcusable roadway behaviors. Here, we have only two boating videos, when there should be many more available showing the participant's attitude.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ApS

Now I'm curious what could have happened at Lake Champlain to bring this issue to such prominence in Vermont politics.



You are correct: the video with the sharp images was located at ​http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155180898; however, that site is no longer available—"404".

I found references to the crash from a speedboat website that is now closed to public viewing of, the um..., speed, alcohol, drug, and moral "indiscretions" of their many members. Other sites bemoaned the helicopters, as the need to show off for an aerial video camera appears too great to resist.

The screenshot follows, with the areas highlighted in yellow of most interest:



.

Which is not to say, they are not without humor in the same thread:









Again, the video and the accompanying narrative (above) is presented for members' perusal. Sometimes, proving a fact with videos and screenshots can't convince some viewers.


SIKSUKR, the driver that crossed 2½ lanes, then struck the rear of a stopped truck, and then was struck in turn by the dash-cam truck survived the ordeal! The torn roof of her car flew up to the truck's windshield, and appears below. A witness to the wreck also crossed over to the far right lane and stopped—to perhaps render EMT aid—or maybe leave a business card of his law firm.


Dash-cams have brought much scrutiny to inexcusable roadway behaviors. Here, we have only two boating videos, when there should be many more available showing the participant's attitude.

headache. Cant we agree to disagree. We have plenty of laws but know plenty break them. We all have to be vigilant and careful.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Rusty

If this Vermont candidate gets elected she wants all motor boats taken off Lake Champlain. At 1:35 into the video she talks about it. She's my type of candidate.

That's perfect Rusty - see ya later! Vermont is nice this time of year. We'll all miss you.

Bidding you farewell with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM-mKx8UIGs

[neutronxray]

It would be great to see the offshore boat racing return to Winni. It was great fun watching them from the water with the helicopter following then seeing it on tv later in the year.

[fatlazyless]

Ya knows that before the 30mph-night, 45mph-day, speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee became law in June, 2008, on just about the same day as a fatal, Diamond Island motorboat collision with the rocky island shoreline, happened at about 2-am on a rainy and foggy night....... the go-fast perfomance boaters were always out on the Lake Winnipesaukee water regardless the wind, rain, weather, day or night .....they were the hard core boaters who really wanted to be boating and were almost always out there.

Now-a-days, the number of boats and especially the number of performance boats on Winnipesaukee is no where near what it used to be before the speed limits. The personality of the lake has become a much quieter and less busy lake especially during the Monday-Friday, mid-week time.

So's, where did all the go-fasts go? Did they go to Lake Winnisquam which is the third largest NH lake and which has no speed limits, plus it has a good quality, free-to-use, state boat launch in Laconia behind Boulia Gourell Lumber on the Winnipesaukee River just about 100-yards north of Lake Winnisquam. Oh well ....where have they done gone to?

[BroadHopper]

Go fast boats may be gone but they are being replace by go fast 'toons. Ugly looking compare to the Arronow designed boats. You ask for it!

[Phantom]

I think the real answer is the Economic collapse contributed to their disappearance !

It is not cheap, by any standards, to not just only purchase one- the least of the expense - but to run them. Remember it was not long ago that we had $4.75/gal gas prices.

Look in Paugus Bay at the amount of Real estate available ... in my humble opinion -- another example of the same.



and Broadhopper --- totally agree ....... SERIOUSLY, a Toon with twin 300's ?


.

[pm203]

We are still here. The lake needs rooster tails to help distribute the water properly.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by pm203

We are still here. The lake needs rooster tails to help distribute the water properly.

A little aeration!!

[pm203]

So, this year I have seen 5 new Performance boats added to the lake!! 2 Cigarettes, a Fountain and 2 new Nortechs. And, I am sure that there are more. The lake is returning to its former greatness!!

[Webbsatwinni]

Oh no, I will be edited if this thread starts up again! But yes, great to see.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by pm203

So, this year I have seen 5 new Performance boats added to the lake!! 2 Cigarettes, a Fountain and 2 new Nortechs. And, I am sure that there are more. The lake is returning to its former greatness!!

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Rusty

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

And, the Marine Patrol is not going out of their way to write speeding tickets. They realize, even if some other people do not, that speed never was the problem.

I love seeing the fast boats out there. They are enjoyable to watch and it is nice that everyone can enjoy the lake in their own way.

Live free or die!!

[BroadHopper]

According to marine patrol, speed has never been an issue! Only one ticket was issue when some bone head was speeding in the middle of the night! Something that any sane pilot would not do. The rest were for no wake, head way speed violations. Nothing new here.

There were a few citations giving when one goes the speed limit when it was not reasonable and prudent to do so. This foolishness was brought up many times but the supporters don't see this as a problem.

Having said that, I think the average speed on the lake may have increase! So has the number of violations and I don't see statistics that the lake is safer!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rusty

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

I don't think many of the GFBL boaters ever really left the lake. What you are seeing is the effect of fuel prices, and the economy. Boating as whole was down on the lake over the last couple of years. Gas Prices where high and the economy was sluggish. The economy is better, still sluggish, but better, and gas prices are down.

Even with my fuel efficient little bow rider, I was doing less boating over the last several years. And when I was boating I was not burning fuel that I didn't need to burn by running around fast. This year fuel expenses are down, the weather has been beautiful the boat is getting used, and yes I am running the boat faster and burning more fuel....

It was unfortunate that the time of the speed limit law, down turn in the economy, and rise in gas prices all came together as a package. People credit the speed limit with changes that where not really brought on by the speed limit itself.

Bottom line... GFBL boats didn't go anywhere they didn't want or intend to go anyway.... Factors such as the economy and gas prices changed the way many people used the disposable income. Thus performance boats on the lake slowed down, and weren't out as frequently... I am sure if someone had access to registry of motor vehicles, they would find that the percentage of performance boats to non performance boats registered really hasn't changed.

It funny that people believe the speed limit has made any difference at all. I still see the same nut jobs out on the lake causing the same old problems, none of which ever had anything to do with speed. I don't see anyone going any faster or slower for that matter then I did before. They only thing the speed limit has changed is perception. People Perceive the lake as safer because there is a speed limit in place. The problem is the "Cowboys" that cause the real problems are still out there, and the problems they cause have never been linked to speed.

Sorry I will step down from my soapbox.

[VitaBene]

A friend just put a Cigarette Cafe Racer on the lake, can't wait to take a ride in it!

The economy is improving, I see lots of boats at the gas dock at Ambrose Cove (I'm at $750 in fuel for the season so far miles per smile are much more important than gallons per mile/hour!)

Hope everyone has a great weekend!!

[SIKSUKR]

Do we really have to go down this path again?How many speed related deaths on Winni do we know about?a couple maybe?Certainly have been dozens of non speed related including the latest by Governors Island.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Rusty

That is good news. Owners of the GFBL boats have probably come to the realization that going slower on the lake is just as much fun as going fast. Glad they are coming back.

It's amazing, Rusty. As I cruise in my GFBL, I have pontoon boats, bass boats and PWC's screaming by me all the time. Outrageous!

PS: Has anyone seen that orange Nor-Tech Super Cat parked at the condos just south of the NASWA? What a SWEET machine that is!

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

It's amazing, Rusty. As I cruise in my GFBL, I have pontoon boats, bass boats and PWC's screaming by me all the time. Outrageous!

PS: Has anyone seen that orange Nor-Tech Super Cat parked at the condos just south of the NASWA? What a SWEET machine that is!

i saw that being launched at Irwin on Sunday, and then saw it flying down the bay for its inaugural. I love it, want a ride in it, but don't want to own it

[ApS]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

A little aeration!!

Developed in 1924...

Let's hear it for century-old discoveries.

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by AC2717

i saw that being launched at Irwin on Sunday, and then saw it flying down the bay for its inaugural. I love it, want a ride in it, but don't want to own it

They are part of the group we will be having fun with this morning at the Easter Seals Poker Run at NASWA. Time to let the puppies run!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

It's amazing, Rusty. As I cruise in my GFBL, I have pontoon boats, bass boats and PWC's screaming by me all the time. Outrageous!

PS: Has anyone seen that orange Nor-Tech Super Cat parked at the condos just south of the NASWA? What a SWEET machine that is!

That boat is gorgeous. I spent all day Saturday at a friend's house on Rattlesnake and saw that boat go by at what looked like WOT. It was awesome. Those surface piercing props really kick up monster rooster tails.

I saw countless boats totally ignoring the speed limit and it was great to see that people have realized that it's totally unenforceable out in the Broads.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

According to marine patrol, speed has never been an issue!

Only one ticket was issue when some bone head was speeding in the middle of the night! Something that any sane pilot would not do. The rest were for no wake, head way speed violations. Nothing new here.

There were a few citations giving when one goes the speed limit when it was not reasonable and prudent to do so. This foolishness was brought up many times but the supporters don't see this as a problem.

Having said that, I think the average speed on the lake may have increase! So has the number of violations and I don't see statistics that the lake is safer!

So the NHMP wasted both ink and trees to print this warning in its own "NH Boaters Handbook"?

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by ApS

So the NHMP wasted both ink and trees to print this warning in its own "NH Boaters Handbook"?

This is perfect and how speeding should be defined. I saw no mention of numbers but as to when any speed is illegal. Could be 20 mph or could be 100 mph depending on the situation.

[NH_boater]

It seems to me that the only place excessive speed causes a larger wake and potential damage is in a NWZ or at idle speeds, which seems to be a different discussion entirely.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ApS

So the NHMP wasted both ink and trees to print this warning in its own "NH Boaters Handbook"?

No, they did not waste ink or trees. They essentially reiterated what we knew all along.

You are easily confused.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

So the NHMP wasted both ink and trees to print this warning in its own "NH Boaters Handbook"?

I am not trying to stir the hornets nest here... But with that rule in the rule book, why is it we need a speed limit???

Just thinking out loud is all....

I will not be redundant and repeat SIKSUKR comment... But I think he sums it up quite nicely.

[Rusty]

You can go 200 MPH or even faster if you want to, but the law is this:

X. (a) No person shall operate a vessel on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions and without regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. In all cases, speed shall be controlled so that the operator will be able to avoid endangering or colliding with any person, vessel, object, or shore.
(b) Where no hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subparagraph (a), the speed of any vessel in excess of the limit specified in this subparagraph shall be prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful:
(1) 30 miles per hour during the period from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise; and
(2) 45 miles per hour at any other time.

http://gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html...-D/270-D-2.htm

[Skip]

....and gas prices remain stabilized, I believe you will see a steady return to the Lake of performance boats. The incorporation of the NHMP into the State Police didn't bring new resources or different powers, as some insinuated, it actually saved money by reducing redundant administrative staff. I have the utmost respect for the men and women at NHMP, but realize that they are understaffed and will remain so now and into the foreseeable future.

Just like on our highways and byways, most have figured out that it is fairly easy to significantly exceed speed limits ( and many other regulations ) with very little chance of being caught. There simply isn't enough, nor will there be, law enforcement on our waterways to prevent it.

Whether you are an ardent supporter or totally against the speed limit law, be prepared to see more folks driving the Lake like they've driven our roadways for years. With not enough resources to effectively enforce the new regulations, it was inevitable. Me? I hope the economy continues to strengthen and gas prices remain stable!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You can go 200 MPH or even faster if you want to, but the law is this:

X. (a) No person shall operate a vessel on Lake Winnipesaukee at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the existing conditions and without regard for the actual and potential hazards then existing. In all cases, speed shall be controlled so that the operator will be able to avoid endangering or colliding with any person, vessel, object, or shore.
(b) Where no hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subparagraph (a), the speed of any vessel in excess of the limit specified in this subparagraph shall be prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful:
(1) 30 miles per hour during the period from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise; and
(2) 45 miles per hour at any other time.

http://gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html...-D/270-D-2.htm

Rusty, we all know what the law is... None of us are questioning that...

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Rusty, we all know what the law is... None of us are questioning that...

People are forgetful at times so I thought it would be a good idea to refresh their memory.

[SIKSUKR]

Welcome back Skip. Very well written post.

[BroadHopper]

There are a good number of boaters that actually believe the lake speed limit ruling actually supersede the excessive speed ruling. They will argue to the moon, this is so. My interpretation is that the excessive speed ruling prevails when the speed is less than the limit. Correct me if I am wrong but it is common sense.

Mr Pilliod, the bill primary sponsor actually convince the speed limit supporters that the enforcement is and will be there to enforce the law. Kind of a bold statement when the truth says otherwise.

Skip is right, administrative cost has been reduced, but staffing remains the same, actually the staffing is less today than it was when the SL became law. Somehow we need to convince the legislature the lake is no more safer today than it was before the SL law. The gold dome is convinced our waterways are safe.

[Woodsy]

I have to chime in here...

The lake was NEVER unsafe.... considering the number of boats of all types sharing lake Winnipesaukee.. we have VERY FEW to the point of almost 0% boat collisions... the speed limit has done nothing to add to nor detract from the safety of the lake. It is a "feel good" law passed by people who didn't like performance boats.

IMHO this lake is as safe as it is for lots of reasons...

The first and most important being the 150' rule... no place else has this rule regarding boat vs. boat spacing on the open water. Even if they come well within 150' of you, there is very little risk of collision.

The Boater Safety Certificate has also helped... although some might argue otherwise.

If people think Performance boats left.. well they are sadly mistaken. The poor economy more than anything else curtailed their use. Not rules, not regulations.

Woodsy

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

The first and most important being the 150' rule...

I disagree with this, and my reason is essentially summed up in your next statement:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

no place else has this rule regarding boat vs. boat spacing on the open water.

There are 4 primary things here as it relates to this and safety:

1) A rule (150' separation) that is effectively unique to Winnipesaukee
2) Boaters on the lake with no clue at all to proper "rules of the road" and boat operation
3) Boaters on the lake who are familiar with boating, but primarily due to experience on other bodies of water
4) Boaters who are mostly limited to Winnipesaukee but are seasoned and knowledgeable.

Every boater essentially falls into one categorization of 2, 3 or 4. The problem is that you never really know WHICH category they fall into. If someone falls into category 3, I don't care if they come closer than 150' to me, as long as they are overall operating safely and carefully. Someone in category 4 will probably generally try to stay 150' away, but might violate that rule in tight spaces, etc. Someone is category 2 is totally unpredictable.

So, I can't rely on other boaters to maintain a 150' separation on their own, and if someone gets too close I can't tell if they do so out of ignorance of the rule, incompetence, or something else.

There are also lots of people unable to accurately judge 150', so they come too close, or think I am too close, or they veer too far off-course and make their route seem erratic when you are trying to gauge how/where your two vessels will cross.

I don't see the 150' rule as being reliable enough to create any real safety aspect, to me it just seems like another feel-good law with good intentions but bad effect.

[Woodsy]

Brk...


I agree on your classification of boaters... but I disagree with your assessment of the 150' rule.

The one thing that needs to be considered with your assessment is the percentage of the different classifications...

1) A rule (150' separation) that is effectively unique to Winnipesaukee

Its actually Unique to NH (this changes the percentages)

2) Boaters on the lake with no clue at all to proper "rules of the road" and boat operation.

This is probably the lowest percentage of boaters on the lake... at best 3-5% These are your renters and newbies. I think they are the biggest violators, but they are the smallest % of boaters on the lake.

3) Boaters on the lake who are familiar with boating, but primarily due to experience on other bodies of water.

This is another low percentage group... probably 4-5%% We do not see a lot of out of state boats on Winni. Because they have experience, they know most of the navigational rules and the probably have some knowledge of the 150' rule. No doubt they tend to shave the distance more often than not because their experience leads them to believe there is no danger if you are closer than 150'


4) Boaters who are mostly limited to Winnipesaukee but are seasoned and knowledgeable.

This makes up the majority of the boaters on Lake Winni... a good 85% at least. Group 4 is why the 150' rule works... Group 4 is the reason there are very few Boat vs. Boat collisions on Lake Winnipesaukee. They are the majority and they know the rules.

I personally don't get too twisted when someone comes within 150' while on plane unless they are danger close... within 50'. I know of the 150' rule and I am very aware that regardless of the rules, or who violated the rules... The 1 CARDINAL rule is "the Capt is responsible for the safety of the vessel & crew". So in crossing situations, if it looks like the guy doesn't know the rules... I will slow down, alter course slightly or come to a complete stop if I have to.


Woodsy

[SIKSUKR]

[pm203]

So, it looks like Winnfabbs or some other similar sorry group of individuals are not happy that the performance boats are back and have resorted to routinely bothering the Marine Patrol by calling in to complain about noise and performance boats once again. What a crock.

It must be tough to sit at your waterfront home and have to listen to a powerboat pass by. I really feel sorry for you and your outlook on life if that is how you feel.

Its just too bad that the MP has to waste their time to placate the selfish needs of the few that do not know how to get along with others or enjoy their life without complaining.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by pm203

So, it looks like Winnfabbs or some other similar sorry group of individuals are not happy that the performance boats are back and have resorted to routinely bothering the Marine Patrol by calling in to complain about noise and performance boats once again. What a crock.

It must be tough to sit at your waterfront home and have to listen to a powerboat pass by. I really feel sorry for you and your outlook on life if that is how you feel.

Its just too bad that the MP has to waste their time to placate the selfish needs of the few that do not know how to get along with others or enjoy their life without complaining.

The only logical answer I can give you is that some alliances don't give up and others do.

BTW it is called "Winnipesaukee Family Alliance for Boating Safety" (WinnFABS).