Hey rocks!!

[chasedawg]

I give up...Here we go again! Pier 19 store is open and boats we haven't seen before since the store closed are blowing by through the NWZ and on the wrong side of the clearly black and white markers. BAM..BOM...BAM!!!

We and our neighbors try to alert this boaters but they have not clue. One guy as I was waving to him and calling ROCKS!! He and his wife waved back as they destroyed they lower unit. What I don't understand when they hit...they power up which makes it even worst. None of them...none of them stop or even check their props or even more important checking bilge for leakage.

These are nice new boats with mostly families on board. This happens several times a week and on weekends I could not give a guess. Are these all rental boats? I have seen some that would not be rentals.

Any suggestions what we can do to help warn people beyond what we have done. Several years ago a friend who lives in Wolfeboro place red painted clorox bottles to help identify the rocks. Those didn't last long because the MP came and scooped them up.

I think I will just let them slam and bam their boats from now on...so sad to witness....

[thinkxingu]

Are you talking about between Chase and Farm? If so, I saw someone flying through the other day while I was on my jetski and I threw my hands up to warn them as they just cruised through, making it...closely.

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[tis]

Chase, I am just shaking my head.

[radioman]

The problem is that those coming up from salt water are use to the Red, Right, Returning rule. The Spar navigation rules are unknown to so many and when you try to explain they simply do not listen. How can you change attitude??

[8gv]

My suggestion is

Chasedawg’s Prop and Outdrive Service

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by 8gv

My suggestion is

Chasedawg’s Prop and Outdrive Service

Ok thank you...maybe better than provide Chases Tow Service to my dock.

[SAB1]

Saw the same thing last week when paddle boarding. People heading southwest thru there on the left side of the blacks. bam! In all honestly you can’t help them. Anyone who can’t read or buy a map gets there due. Just like the knuckleheads that’s try to squeeze between Farm and the mainland.

[Descant]

And people want a lighthouse on the Witches where there are relatively few hits !! You need to name it some thing like "Dead Farmer's Gravesite".

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by Descant

And people want a lighthouse on the Witches where there are relatively few hits !! You need to name it some thing like "Dead Farmer's Gravesite".

Ok great idea...I can name it but the MP.. Bizer or others have not helped me helping people others preventing damage to their boats and having a horrible experience. We tried red bottle floats and good old magaphones. My son used it when he was 10 years old He would see a boat heading the wrong way and would rush up to the camp to grab the magaphone and blast a horn and yell ... ROCKS. They just wave and get crunched.

Could I maybe get permission since red floating floats was not allowed maybe attach a flag to the no wake sign that says rocks here pointing down... no rocks the other way slow down!!.

[Hillcountry]

Why worry? It’s called natural selection

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Why worry? It’s called natural selection

Darwinian principle of weeding out the morons. You'd think over time their numbers would diminish. Somehow they reproduce. I don't boat on weekends.

[tis]

I suppose half of them make a wake even if they are on the correct side of the buoy right?

[mhtranger]

I think some video footage so we can all have a laugh. But on a serious note marine patrol should help out in some way I would think. As others have said shame on them for not knowing the markers or having a map.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by mhtranger

But on a serious note marine patrol should help out in some way I would think. As others have said shame on them for not knowing the markers or having a map.

This same scenario happens all over the lake, not just in this area.
Marine Patrol has helped out in some way, they have installed black markers to warn boaters about the rocks in that area, not much else they can do. Boaters need to be aware of where they are and learn which side to pass markers depending on direction of travel.

[Jdarby]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

Several years ago a friend who lives in Wolfeboro place red painted clorox bottles to help identify the rocks. Those didn't last long because the MP came and scooped them up.....

Im surprised the MP removed them. There are various other examples of these around the lake. Have you contacted the MP and asked them for any suggestions and alerted them to how frequently you witness these strikes? I appreciate you not wanting to turn a blind eye. I don’t understand why people can’t use a chart or smartphone navigation to know exactly where they should and should not be. With that said, boat damage is a hard way to teach the lesson. But I fear it can translate into serious injury at some point. As you said, people don’t even stop to assess damage which defies logic!

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Jdarby

Im surprised the MP removed them.

From a similar thread back in 2014 started by the OP on the same topic, Marine Patrol response to home made markers:

"private" markers are not approved on navigable
waters across the state. Typically if a "home-made" navigational aid is located it is removed.

[Patofnaud]

Sad truth is,,,, you can't fix stupid.

If you don't know the area and can't be bothered learning the rules, then the 'play stupid games, win stupid prizes' adage come in.

Fwiw, if I do not know an area and the chart is showing all sorts of hell, off plane, trim up, first mate eyes over bow and crawl mode enabled.

Heck first time I saw Graveyard, I veared off and took the long way around. Until the 2nd time when I saw a big cruiser tear through and then I tried it.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by chasedawg

I give up...Here we go again! Pier 19 store is open and boats we haven't seen before since the store closed are blowing by through the NWZ and on the wrong side of the clearly black and white markers. BAM..BOM...BAM!!!

We and our neighbors try to alert this boaters but they have not clue. One guy as I was waving to him and calling ROCKS!! He and his wife waved back as they destroyed they lower unit. What I don't understand when they hit...they power up which makes it even worst. None of them...none of them stop or even check their props or even more important checking bilge for leakage.

These are nice new boats with mostly families on board. This happens several times a week and on weekends I could not give a guess. Are these all rental boats? I have seen some that would not be rentals.

Any suggestions what we can do to help warn people beyond what we have done. Several years ago a friend who lives in Wolfeboro place red painted clorox bottles to help identify the rocks. Those didn't last long because the MP came and scooped them up.

I think I will just let them slam and bam their boats from now on...so sad to witness....

I know the area well, I have seen the idiots and have watched a few hits happen..... I have even been told I am on the wrong side of the markers...
I think the maps and markers explain things very well through that spot.
You however can't make people listen and think.

As far as what to do, I think the sad part is there isn't much you can do, except of course as it sounds like you already do, pay attention and if someone ends up in real distress help them out.

I am convinced that many people on the lake view their boats as a short term item, that they will trade in after a season or two. This many of them really don't give a darn about the damage they do to them. As an owner of 2 20 year old boats I can't understand the mentality. But it is what it is....

[XCR-700]

No value added to this thread, just wondering if for the various hot spots around the lake where outdrives get crunched, if those big Yamaha Jet boats would go unscathed or would they drag bottom?

Not looking for a solution, just a question out of curiosity.

Thanks

[Descant]

Get some good pictures of a really nice wreck, esp at low water, blow it up to poster size and see if you can get it posted at the local store.

I understand why MP is skittish about hoemade markers although in drought years they appear all over the place. An unpainted bleach bottle more universally marks a rock than something red that could be confused with a buoy. Getting inside the rocks to maintain a state marker is problematic, I'd say.
We used to see a number of boats going inside FL76; we'd get up and wave. Later we'd just get up and watch. Now we don't even get up.
It will be interesting to see how the traffic flows when that side of Farm Island gets developed.

[Patofnaud]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

No value added to this thread, just wondering if for the various hot spots around the lake where outdrives get crunched, if those big Yamaha Jet boats would go unscathed or would they drag bottom?

Not looking for a solution, just a question out of curiosity.

Thanks

Anything with a very small draft would be less succeptible. Jet boats more so as all the naughty bits are internal and they do not weigh as much and the weight is fairly midship. Not tail dragging at low speed.

Fwiw: My tritoon when not on plane and with the trim up a tad is only about 1.5ft, makes crawling through unknown areas a lot less stressful.

[persistence]

Originally Posted by radioman

The problem is that those coming up from salt water are use to the Red, Right, Returning rule. The Spar navigation rules are unknown to so many and when you try to explain they simply do not listen. How can you change attitude??

That’s fair and unfair. I’m very comfortable on salt even with traffic on the busiest days. And RRR doesn’t always apply.

But I do approach the lake with caution. Still after ‘learning’ the lake for 5 years, I find the system confusing at best. I think a lot of people get in and hit the throttle and go from there. Some are lucky some aren’t, often never realizing how close they were. I’ve have near misses too. I find the lake to be an entirely different type of boating.

This happens in salt too. I see people float thru 2’ areas in Boston all the time and somehow make it by. The fancy new gps screens are awesome but no replacement for basic seamanship and local knowledge.

I am having fun learning the lake and so far ...no problems


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[Jdarby]

Originally Posted by DEJ

From a similar thread back in 2014 started by the OP on the same topic, Marine Patrol response to home made markers:

"private" markers are not approved on navigable

waters across the state. Typically if a "home-made" navigational aid is located it is removed.

Well, there are a bunch they are missing!

[Dave R]

I cannot fathom how anyone in 2020 would boat over rocks in a power boat. Smart phones are ubiquitous and for less than the cost of lunch for 3 at McDonalds, one can have a year-long subscription to Navionics that will not only tell you where you and rocks are, it will plan a safe route for you to follow. It literally makes the horrible NH ATON system moot.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Patofnaud

Anything with a very small draft would be less succeptible. Jet boats more so as all the naughty bits are internal and they do not weigh as much and the weight is fairly midship. Not tail dragging at low speed.

Fwiw: My tritoon when not on plane and with the trim up a tad is only about 1.5ft, makes crawling through unknown areas a lot less stressful.

WOW, 18" is surprising. My Glastron 23" with Alpha drive was like 30" and our Caravelle with a Bravo 1 drive was 35", and I was surprised to find our Formula w/Bravo 3 is listed as having a 40" draft!

the difference between 18" of draft and 40" is HUGE.

I love our Formula out in the open water, but it worries me in a lot of spots. Took some friends by Ellacoya beach recently and forgot how quickly it gets really shallow there. You feel like you are way off shore, but then look at your depth gauge and it reads 3.5' and you realize you need to trim all the way up AND get out of there,,,

Dont miss getting beat to death in the old CVX 20 in open water, but some things were never a problem (like navigating the sandbars and the Wolfeboro and the Alton Bridges,,,)

[WJT2]

Unfortunately some people do not pay attention when piloting a boat. The Lake is very tricky and being aware of the direction you are traveling is a must. The buoys Do Make Sense if you take the time to understand which way you should go. First you need to know your course North, South, East, West.(get a compass). The markers Black Top Spar: you pass NORTH of it when your course is East/West. you pass EAST of it when your course is North/South. Red Top Spars: you pass SOUTH of it when your course is East/West. you pass WEST of it when your course is North/South. I have a few tricks to help me remember. NEWS: BLACK is alphabetically before RED. BLACK you go NORTH or EAST.
RED you go WEST or SOUTH. Hence NEWS. Also it is always hot (Red) in the South and West, and it is Cold (Black) in the North and East. I am old school and don't have electronic navs available to me. Buy a CHART and study it. It will be your friend and understanding will be easier. Good Luck ALL and don't forget to be aware of the NEWS!!

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by WJT2

The buoys Do Make Sense if you take the time to understand which way you should go. First you need to know your course North, South, East, West.(get a compass).

Although I agree with you in principle, there are about a dozen spots around the Lake that you simply must memorize as they do NOT hold precisely to compass logic.

These spots were all identified in an old thread here which I could not find to reference.

Below is a perfect example -- no one in their right mind should ever split between 2 Black Tops ……. yet it is the proper/safe route.

[Barney Bear]

At the southeast tip of Bear Island, the red top buoy near the black top buoy shown is this section of the Bizer chart is quite close to shore. The sailing line is through this narrow passage. Frequently, boats come through this passage on plane as they are headed around the island tip and continuing on west towards the Weirs.

When we are headed east, and then north on our way to our place on East Bear Island, we stay well south of the island's tip until we can see if any boat is coming south through this narrow passage.

Also, we proceed with caution when we are headed south and west in this location.

Double-flashing lighted buoy #30 (and black top buoy) is so located so it can be seen from several locations as boats head east and west, and north and south. I believe that it also marks a shallow area.

[Descant]

In the same section of chart posted above, note the two red tops at the south end of the channel between Mark and Mink. Go between them.

[rick35]

We see people go between Mark and Bear right through the middle all the time (north of marker 29). People don't realize there are rocks and they don't know to stay between the markers near Mark. I can only remember seeing one boat hit a rock in there but my neighbor said she saw someone hit this week. You better not make that mistake in September-October when the lake is lower.

[ursa minor]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Although I agree with you in principle, there are about a dozen spots around the Lake that you simply must memorize as they do NOT hold precisely to compass logic.

These spots were all identified in an old thread here which I could not find to reference.

Below is a perfect example -- no one in their right mind should ever split between 2 Black Tops ……. yet it is the proper/safe route.

Not to mention going between the red top and the point at Bear Island, that’s a big no no in 99% of other similar situations. (Islands often continue under water out from shore at points.)

[8gv]

If one follows the dotted green lines in the chart posted above the rocks will be safe from the props.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by 8gv

If one follows the dotted green lines in the chart posted above the rocks will be safe from the props.

Well ………… DUHHHH ….. of course, that's the safe navigation route for the Chart.

[Jdarby]

Originally Posted by 8gv

If one follows the dotted green lines in the chart posted above the rocks will be safe from the props.

But that means you have to have a chart and use it! The attendant at Roberts Cove Marina told me the other day that he had a family staying there and they were headed out in their boat. The gentleman had his son run back to the car to fetch his GPS. The son returned with a car GPS. The dad stuck the suction cup on the windscreen and off they went! The attendant said he tried to sell him a lake chart but the guy had no interest! Hilarious and scary all at the same time!

[rick35]

Originally Posted by ursa minor

Not to mention going between the red top and the point at Bear Island, that’s a big no no in 99% of other similar situations. (Islands often continue under water out from shore at points.)

I had to shared that narrow slot with a boat on plane rounding the corner while I was kayaking. I thought I was going to be run over. He passed me within 50 feet and I thought I would we swamped. Now I'm always right next to shore when I kayak out there.

[Barney Bear]

The east red top buoy at the south end of the channel between Mark and Mink Islands noted in Item #29 above is still missing. I have called Marine Patrol several times concerning this missing navigation marker, but, alas, it continues to be missing. This area south of Mink Island is shallow and should have its buoy back. 🐻

[Descant]

If you are on the chart or GPS, you should know where to go whether the buoy is there or not. Been running around the lake with missing buoys almost every spring for many years. You need to know wheere you are with a compass and chart not electronics.

[Tuckntruck]

Originally Posted by Jdarby

But that means you have to have a chart and use it! The attendant at Roberts Cove Marina told me the other day that he had a family staying there and they were headed out in their boat. The gentleman had his son run back to the car to fetch his GPS. The son returned with a car GPS. The dad stuck the suction cup on the windscreen and off they went! The attendant said he tried to sell him a lake chart but the guy had no interest! Hilarious and scary all at the same time!

A fair number of Garmin "car" units can run all sorts of charts - with Garmin purchasing Navionics, there's a decent chance that they had plugged in a boating card and were ok...

Or not, however, if it's something they do frequently it would save them the purchase of a separate GPS for boating.

[8gv]

I use Navionics to plan my salt water trips.

Using the Active Captain app I can transfer the routes and waypoints to my trailer boat's Garmin gps.

That boat is seldom used in fresh water so I have not purchased the inland waters data card.

If my iPad had a screen that could be read in bright sunlight I would use it on the lake.

For now, the lake boat has no gps so I use the waterproof chart.

[persistence]

So something that came into play tonight. Obviously more obvious during the day. I ran for a lit buoy...only to come up on the actual buoy floating about 10’ away. I had time to negotiate it but I had to get pretty close to see the actual buoy.

On salt...a lit is a lit and something to be used as an actually ATN


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[Barney Bear]

The lighted buoys have a colored top buoy very near them to indicate how to navigate at this location. 🐻

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 8gv

I use Navionics to plan my salt water trips.

Using the Active Captain app I can transfer the routes and waypoints to my trailer boat's Garmin gps.

That boat is seldom used in fresh water so I have not purchased the inland waters data card.

If my iPad had a screen that could be read in bright sunlight I would use it on the lake.

For now, the lake boat has no gps so I use the waterproof chart.

Where do you boat from in salt water?

[Patofnaud]

Originally Posted by Barney Bear

The lighted buoys have a colored top buoy very near them to indicate how to navigate at this location. 🐻

Usually closer than 10'. But yeah try not to get too close to the blinking ones,, their non-blinking buds are not far away.

The ones that get me are the black ones wayyyyy off shore with no companion. In pitch black, even if you watch charts close, you could easily bonk one. I know of 3 in Merideth Bay that made me go first time I saw them up way too close.

[Patofnaud]

Playing with night vision last night, here is an example of a lighted/companion.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=443NXnfWLlk

Not one of the aforementioned 3 single black spars, but an example of lit and companion as per base note.

[persistence]

Originally Posted by Patofnaud

Usually closer than 10'. But yeah try not to get too close to the blinking ones,, their non-blinking buds are not far away.

The ones that get me are the black ones wayyyyy off shore with no companion. In pitch black, even if you watch charts close, you could easily bonk one. I know of 3 in Merideth Bay that made me go first time I saw them up way too close.

Yea, maybe not 10’ but I could have driven my boat between the gap. I knew the buoy was there and how to round it. I knew there was a gap but I was using the light as a bearing to steer for.

The gap actually looks more than 10’. Is the buoy attaches to the light underwater?


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[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Although I agree with you in principle, there are about a dozen spots around the Lake that you simply must memorize as they do NOT hold precisely to compass logic.

These spots were all identified in an old thread here which I could not find to reference.

Below is a perfect example -- no one in their right mind should ever split between 2 Black Tops ……. yet it is the proper/safe route.

So I was looking at this.... and thought quickly about it... You are not splitting Black markers in that situation.... In fact those markers aren't even pair in any sort of fashion..... In both cases you should be navigating to the north or east side of the marker, but not to the south or west side of the marker..... by going between them you are satisfying those requirements....for each marker independently... which is how they need to be thought about.... The only time Markers are not independant is when they are solid black or solid red, then they are marking a channel...