Governor will sign Speed Limit legislation

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

One other thing regarding the 150' "space, in many previous posts you had claimed that "your" 150' space had been violated many or all the time. Contradicts what you said in your previous post #199 about "no it isn't, yours is".

You're confusing the 150 foot zone with footprint. I didn't contradict anything that I wrote. As I stated before (as per NH law) only boats exceeding headway speed have to maintain a 150 foot buffer. My 150 foot zone is in reference to that buffer.

If the 150 foot was part of my footprint, as you and others here keep insisting, then I would have to remain 150 feet away from shorelines and from other kayaks. Since I am not required by NH law to do so, you are wrong. When a boat slows down to headway speed, their footprint is also reduced, since they no longer are required to maintain a 150 foot buffer.

Swimmers do not have a 150' footprint - neither do loons.
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Originally Posted by chipj29

And I have the right to judge you based on you avoiding the subject of the question posed. I am not going to argue with you on this anymore.

I was responding to a single part of your post - just like most others here do - that's why I only quoted that part. You asked how and I post one possible way this could happen. It's as simple as that.

I never suggested that 100 boston whalers have the same footprint as 1 high-performance boat. You need to take that up with the original poster. Please stop trying to make this into an argument.
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Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

I find it interesting that Evenstar brings out her communication problem when she is called out on her method of comparing 1 performance boat to 100 family boats (by chip's post #169, a 23' family bowrider)!!! ANYONE reading his post would have known the comparison to be made was with a 23' bowrider and not a kayak!! Evenstar, you very much have an agenda and your honesty goes only as deep as necessary to achieve that agenda, as evidenced by your performance-boat-to-kayak comparison (THAT'S an apples-to-oranges comparison if ever I saw one!)!!

Geez! What is it with some of you people? How many times do I have to explain this? I was NOT responding to the entire post! I was ONLY responding to the FINAL QUESTION. I was MERELY showing how it is POSSIBLE for one large boat to have the same footprint as 100 small boats (and kayaks are small boats) - that's all. As I've stated many times, I don't have any hidden agenda. I do not lie, so it is wrong for you to suggest that I am being dishonest, when I am being totally honest.

This is not the first time that I've admitted to having a learning disability on this forum. Writing is a very difficult and time consuming process to me and I'm very insecure about not being clear enough when I write. I was just hoping for a little understanding on why having my posts picked apart frustrates me so much. Instead my openness and honesty gets used against me.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

As I've stated many times, I don't have any hidden agenda. I do not lie, so it is wrong for you to suggest that I am being dishonest, when I am being totally honest.

This is not the first time that I've admitted to having a learning disability on this forum. Writing is a very difficult and time consuming process to me and I'm very insecure about not being clear enough when I write. I was just hoping for a little understanding on why having my posts picked apart frustrates me so much. Instead my openness and honesty gets used against me.

Seven posts to one thread in two days, so far...

This is NH; not Kansas...

[VtSteve]

Wow. It's no wonder common sense isn't common anymore, but litigation is. Nobody really gives a flying crap about the footprint of a kayak. While grownups were debating another really stupid comment, kayaks get interjected for about a mile of posts.

TB likes the idea of having 100 smaller boats versus one GFBL boat. He must be real active on the lake to appreciate that. It's no wonder people get worried when they hear about "groups" getting together for the common good, to pass a law.

WB, I hear ya about the everyday boater being Captain Bonehead. INtentionally or not, they are the problem. One thing this thread prooves in spades, is the real intent. As I stated many moons ago, there are various factions in the pro speed limit crowd that want to limit all kinds of things, except their own activities. They view the lake as theirs and theirs alone. They can freely do as they please to and fro, but not others. Those that break the law, are not mentioned by this group, Unless they are in a GF boat.

These are the very last people on earth that should be creating laws for anyone, but they love the judicial and legislative processes.

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Geez! What is it with some of you people? How many times do I have to explain this? I was NOT responding to the entire post! I was ONLY responding to the FINAL QUESTION. I was MERELY showing how it is POSSIBLE for one large boat to have the same footprint as 100 small boats (and kayaks are small boats) - that's all. As I've stated many times, I don't have any hidden agenda. I do not lie, so it is wrong for you to suggest that I am being dishonest, when I am being totally honest.

You are clearly and intentionally taking his very last question out of the context of the rest of his post. If that question were to stand alone, then your answer could have been considered reasonable, but obviously not within the context with which he presented it. Let me quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

If there are 100 boats on the lake, each with its own 150 ft circle around it...how can that possibly take up more of the "lake footprint" than 1 boat with a single 150 ft circle around it?

Lets make a couple assumptions, then some calculations based on those.

1. A smaller "family" boat is a 23 ft bowrider. Average width might be 8 ft. You could say that the boat occupies 184 square feet (23 ft long x 8 ft wide). Not exactly accurate, but close enough.
2. A larger "fast" boat is a 32 footer. Average with probably about the same 8 ft. You could say that this boat occupies 256 square feet (32 ft long x 8 ft wide).

3. 100 smaller boats, each occupying 184 square feet, occupy 18,400 square feet (100 boats x 184 sf). This does not take into account the 150 ft circle around each. Sorry, that math is too much for me. Let's just pretend they are all rafting.
4. 1 larger fast boat occupies 256 sf, as determined above. Same 150 ft circle too.

Conclusion-The 100 smaller boats occupy 18,144 FEWER square feet than 1 single larger boat...again, not taking the 150 ft circle into consideration (18,400-256).

So tell me again...how does 1 large boat have a larger footprint than 100 smaller boats?

You'll see in my first bolded sentence, Chip defined the term "smaller boat" for the purposes of his post. From here on in, the reader should assume the term "smaller boat" to be as defined earlier in the post. Thus, his question truly reads:

So tell me again...how does 1 large boat have a larger footprint than 100 23 ft bowriders?

The kayaks were completely irrelevant in that discussion and you know it.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by chmeeee

. . . The kayaks were completely irrelevant in that discussion and you know it.

Look, chipj29 did not start this discussion in his post (#169). That discussion began way back in #139, with Little Bear's post. Here’s the direction of this thread from #139 on:

#139 – Little Bear made the statement: “The problem is that these kayakers seem to think that they are invincible and that they have inalienable rights to be on the lake, any place at any time.”

#140 – Bear Islander replied that kayakers “do have an inalienable right to be on the lake, any place, any time.”

#143 – ITD replied: “They do????? Where is this spelled out?”

#144 - Silver Duck replied that “Kayaks have the exact same rights as any other type of boat. NH law makes it very clear that the public is to have unrestricted access to the larger lakes, and does not differentiate between paddle craft, sail boats, or motor boats in that right to access.”

#145 – I replied that “A kayak falls under the definition of both "boat" and "vessel" in NH law:” and I quote where this was stated in the RSAs.

#149 – bigpasfan ask Bear Islander, “Kayakers and power boaters have co-existed for longer than all of us have been alive so why the kayakers want to make this an us versus them or a David vs. Golith just doesn’t make sense. . . . If the total number of boats do not diminish then by enacting a speed limit you actually lost.”

#151 – Turtle Boy replied: “you have to look at the impact of different kinds of boats on the lake and those who use it. Clearly the 500 plus horsepower boat roaring loudly around the lake at 70 MPH driven by an owner who feels Winnipesaukee is his private speedway has a much greater impact than the Boston Whaler with a family boating to Wolfeboro to get an ice cream cone. I'd take 100 of the latter over 1 of the former.”

#153 – Siksukr replied: “Love this logic.100 times more boats will have less impact?Wow,now there is clear thinking!”

#155 – I replied to Siksukr: “. . . it is what I call your "Lake Footprint." This is based on your boat's size X your average speed on the water X your length of time on the water.”

#162 – chipj29 replied to me: “So 100 "smaller" boats have less of a "lake footprint" than 1 "large, fast moving boat"??? There is no way that you can be serious.”

#164 – I replied to chipj29: “I'm totally serious about my formula, but the exact numbers will depend on the variables. Give me the footprint of a large boat and its average speed and I'll figure out how many of my sea kayaks it equals.”

#169 – chipj29 replied to me: “If there are 100 boats on the lake, each with its own 150 ft circle around it...how can that possibly take up more of the "lake footprint" than 1 boat with a single 150 ft circle around it?” . . . “So tell me again...how does 1 large boat have a larger footprint than 100 smaller boats?”

#170 – I explained how 100 sea kayaks could actually have a larger lake footprint than 1 powerboat.

So kayaks have been a very large part of this discussion. When chip first reply to me, about my "lake footprint formula", I asked him to "Give me the footprint of a large boat and its average speed and I'll figure out how many of my sea kayaks it equals.” Instead, he tried to take kayaks out of the discussion.

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

So kayaks have been a very large part of this discussion. When chip first reply to me, about my "lake footprint formula", I asked him to "Give me the footprint of a large boat and its average speed and I'll figure out how many of my sea kayaks it equals.” Instead, he tried to take kayaks out of the discussion.

The original discussion of 100 boats was brought up by Turtle Boy, and he was most certainly talking about power boats. Furthermore, your answer with the kayaks, was as you have repeatedly asserted, in response to chip's question. His question, as I proved above, was regarding smaller powerboats. He asked how the impact of 100 smaller power boats could be less than 1 GFBL, you responded with kayaks.