Governor will sign Speed Limit legislation

[Audiofn]

You must have missed the part that I posted earlier when I said if you are in a race your boat is NOT insured. Not likely that you are going to get many if any to show up and run their boat uninsured in this run you are all planning. A race also includes the need for a sanctioning body (apba, oss, opa). The costs are MUCH higher. Once you make it a race you will also need to take up the resources of the marine patrol and so on.....

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

You must have missed the part that I posted earlier when I said if you are in a race your boat is NOT insured. Not likely that you are going to get many if any to show up and run their boat uninsured in this run you are all planning. A race also includes the need for a sanctioning body (apba, oss, opa). The costs are MUCH higher. Once you make it a race you will also need to take up the resources of the marine patrol and so on.....

"Slow" people don't understand that a "race" puts you in an entirely different ballpark.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

You must have missed the part that I posted earlier when I said if you are in a race your boat is NOT insured. Not likely that you are going to get many if any to show up and run their boat uninsured in this run you are all planning. A race also includes the need for a sanctioning body (apba, oss, opa). The costs are MUCH higher. Once you make it a race you will also need to take up the resources of the marine patrol and so on.....

Again, this just requires your group's being willing to adapt. Races are held by boating groups all the time, so this is indeed possible.

The other choice is that you limit your speed at a poker run - since, according to you "Poker runs are NOT races" - so this is also possible.

Motorcycle groups have poker runs all the time to raise money for charities - while not exceeding road speed limits. They don't seem to feel that they can have a successful poker run only if they are allowed to run their bikes at top speed.

So, if the goal is truly to raise money for a charity, then your group should be more than willing to adapt enough to continue supporting the charity. If your goal is mostly just for your group to have fun - going at top speeds, then stop using the so-called loss of a charity event as an argument against a lake speed limit.

[VtSteve]

I'm not the kind of boater that engages in risky behavior or floating cocktail parties. I'd prefer is there were rational responses and community support to protect boater's rights, and preserve the safety factor. Most of the outcry and support for additional enforcement surprisingly comes from The GF crowd and organizations that sponsor poker runs and the like. I know this will offend some, and amaze others, but it's true. They don't want the bad rep due to some idiots that never seem to get caught.

What I can't seem to adapt to is the new age of reactionaries that don't understand the realities of boating. They rarely mention funding and additional enforcement. The reasoning behind this is their image of sedate waterways filled with (painting old stereotype here) cutesy boaters that take their kayaks off their Volvo wagons to paddle around the middle of the lake. We have enough ignorant fruit and nutters here that try to prevent additional slip space because they can't imagine what a lake with boats would end up like.

This is Al Gore's new boat, I'm sure it's very green. He's laughing all the way to the bank.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/gore-hi...new-houseboat/

[Audiofn]

Evenstar: Again I will adapt. I will go to other poker runs that will allow me to run my boat the way that I want. I am not particularly fond of anyone else telling me how to run my boat/life. So my solution.... go to another lake for poker runs. I am still raising money for charities, just not local to Winni. I can live with that. The local charities still loose and that is a shame.

Yes races are held by boating groups all the time. Sailboat groups, maybe even paddle groups. Refresh my memory when was the last time a race was run at the local level for offshore boats? You seem to have conveniently skipped over the part were I mentioned that if I am in a RACE then I have no INSURANCE! Now if I had paid 10,000.00 for a kayak (that must be getting up there for the most expensive kayaks) then I would not mind so much if I got some damage to the thing or even a total loss. These boats outdrives can cost over 40,000 each, steering costs 7,000 there is a LOT more to risk for us then some one in a kayak or sailboat. So to expect some one to come up for a fun day with their million dollar investment and tell them that there is going to be no insurance on their boat durring the "race".... not going to happen.

Yes we could limit our speed but then why do I have a boat that is capable of much higher speeds? I have it because I enjoy going fast. When I am in a poker run then I often times will run my boat as fast as it will go. Then I will back off and cruise next to a friend for a while. To be paced at 45... if I know that is going to happen then I will just go to another poker run that is not going to pace me. There are poker runs just about any weekend just pick one. The cost of getting to a place that is farther away is hardly a consideration as that will still be the cheapest part of the trip. Plus I can make it like a little vacations for me and the family.

Comparing motorcycles to offshore power boats is about the same as comparing offshore power boats to kayaks. Different animals all together, different type of owner, financial backgrounds, mind set.....

Today I can not get out to the big lake. Why because some bone head in a kayak got to close to the locks, lost control and went over the falls. Risked peoples lives that had to come save her and now we are all inconvenieced with closed locks for the weekend. So what should our reaction to this be? What new laws should we pass?

http://www.sunjournal.com/story/2774...er_from_locks/

Or how about this poor teacher? More people die in Kayaks each year then offshore power boats yet we are the ones that get regulated?

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/ne...10kayaker.html

I just don't get it. Do you even know some one with a offshore power boat? Even ridden in one? When I say know I mean not some one that you met on a dock, I mean some one that you would call a close friend?

[Turtle Boy]

"I am still raising money for charities, just not local to Winni. I can live with that. The local charities still loose(sic) and that is a shame".

Audiofn...that's ridiculous. As I've said, charities are quite adept at finding ways to raise money, and when one door closes, another opens. And as Winni's reputation is perceived to be more friendly to the smaller boats, all kinds of new opportunities will arise. Glad you have so much money to lavish on a million dollar offshore boat, but that's where it belongs...off shore, and N.H. has some beautiful coastline. Our charities will adapt just fine.
As far as the bonehead kayaker that has ruined your weekend, don't forget that there have been no shortage of accidents caused by the GFBL's here.

[Audiofn]

[QUOTE=Turtle Boy;78640Audiofn...that's ridiculous. As I've said, charities are quite adept at finding ways to raise money, and when one door closes, another opens.QUOTE]

Carities are HURTING for donations this year and last. People that used to make donations can not afford to because they are paying for the increased cost of gas. The ones that are slightly above that fre are trying to pay for other costs that have increased on them so that they can stay in their house (raise in the interest rate on their arm loan...). Most, not all, that have the means to run a performance boat can still make donations. If you can afford to put 1000 dollars in gas into your boat to run it for the day then you can still make a donation. Simple fact. Take a look at the fallowing artical. If you google donations for the last few years you will see a sizable drop off for organizations. These people want to get their money were ever they can and organizations like Make a Wish look heavily to offshore events to raise money for them.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/141161

There have been a small number of accidents involving offshore boats, however, there have been many many many more that do not involve them!

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

Evenstar: Again I will adapt. I will go to other poker runs that will allow me to run my boat the way that I want. I am not particularly fond of anyone else telling me how to run my boat/life. So my solution.... go to another lake for poker runs. I am still raising money for charities, just not local to Winni. I can live with that. The local charities still loose and that is a shame.

Apparently your goal is your own personal enjoyment – so stop using the Easter Seals as an argument against the speed limit.

Yes races are held by boating groups all the time. Sailboat groups, maybe even paddle groups. Refresh my memory when was the last time a race was run at the local level for offshore boats? You seem to have conveniently skipped over the part were I mentioned that if I am in a RACE then I have no INSURANCE!

So are you trying to say that there are no races for offshore boats? If there are indeed races, then how is this possible, when insurance is not available?

Your unwillingness to be involved in at poker run, where you can’t exceed 45mph just further proves that your own personal enjoyment is more important than raising money for a charity.

Comparing motorcycles to offshore power boats is about the same as comparing offshore power boats to kayaks.

Ok, so give me one example of a kayak poker run. Motorcycle poker runs are very common – in fact, motorcycles were part of the Land and Lake Poker Run at Lake Winnipesaukee that you are claiming will no longer be able to raise money for the Easter Seals due to the lake speed limit: “Interested in doing something different this summer? Hop in your boat, personal watercraft, motorcycle, truck or car and join Easter Seals NH and the HK Powersports for the region's Land and Lake Poker Run at Lake Winnipesaukee Saturday, July 12.” http://www.jetski.com/article.cfm?id=813

Today I can not get out to the big lake. Why because some bone head in a kayak got to close to the locks, lost control and went over the falls. Risked peoples lives that had to come save her and now we are all inconvenieced with closed locks for the weekend. So what should our reaction to this be?

First of all, get the story straight - The locks were closed due to high water – the kayak accident just showed the danger.
“High Water Causes State to Close Songo Lock to Boaters - Posted on: Friday, 8 August 2008, 15:00 CDT - By Max Mogensen: AUGUSTA - Maine's Department of Conservation announced Thursday it is temporarily closing the Songo River Lock to all boat traffic due to unusually high water and dangerous current. The control gates on the lock, which raises and lowers the water level of the Songo River to allow boaters to go between Brandy Pond and Sebago Lake is being left open temporarily to prevent flooding. The decision comes a day after a vacationing kayaker, Carol Emmons, was rescued from the lock when her kayak tipped her into the cold, swift-moving current. Two deputies pulled her to safety with a rope. http://www.redorbit.com/news/science...urce=r_science

More people die in Kayaks each year then offshore power boats yet we are the ones that get regulated?

You are not being singled out. A lake speed limit effects ALL powerboats that are capable of exceeding the speed limit. Kayakers are not a danger to powerboats – yet the opposite is not true.

I have been very open about my limited experience with powerboats – How much experience do you have with sea kayak?

[Audiofn]

I did get the story correct, the papers also said that the water was cold..... Hardly cold in the middle of August, even after the rain. Had she not almost gone over the falls the locks would still be open. The water is not higher today then it is in the spring when the locks are open.

My goal is enjoyment. If the poker runs were no fun then who would want to go? That is why they are so succesfull.

There are races for offshore boats, they are held by sanctioning bodies such as APBA, OPA, OSS. It is extreamly expensive to get them to show up. It would be like trying to get NASCAR to come and run at Oxford Planes, just not going to happen. We did race on the lake for 3 years. The sponsors ran out of money because the costs were so hight, and that was that. There is a big difference between my running a race boat in a race and me running my peasure boat in a race. Safty gear in a race boat is redundent for all people in the boat and on and on. The boat that I used to race is not even close to the expense that most people have in the boats that show up at poker runs.

You are not reading my posts accuratly. I am willing to go on a poker run that is limited to a certain speed, however if there is another poker run at another lake that does not have the speed limit that is were you will find me along with most of the other offshore boaters.

I have at leaste used a kayak to try and see what all the talk was about. I found it to be extreamly boring and not for me. There is nothing that I am doing that is preventing you from doing what you want, when you want on the lake. The speed limit limits my enjoyment. I bet if you ever took a ride then you would realize that all your feers are unfounded. We are not the people that you have to worry about it is the people that do not take boating seriously and don't pay attention when they are underway that are your biggest danger and most are traveling under 45.

I find it interesting that the MP's on most lakes will say that the offshore crowd tends to be the most knowledgable and saftest boaters on the lake as a whole. I have yet to see a offshore go past my dock at anything more then headway speed. I see other boats of all kinds going way over headway speed even almost on plane. We see people with their kids hanging their feet over the bow on the pontoon boat and on and on. Yet again we are being singled out.

At any rate I know that I am not going to change your minds I just wanted to add balance to the debate and this horse is dead.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

I did get the story correct, the papers also said that the water was cold..... Hardly cold in the middle of August, even after the rain. Had she not almost gone over the falls the locks would still be open. The water is not higher today then it is in the spring when the locks are open.

Did you even read the article I pointed to? You are trying to blame a kayaker for causing the situation, when she was apparently a victim of a dangerous condition, which was caused by the high water level.

This is a direct quote from the article: “The hand-operated lock used by thousands of boaters has become dangerous due to "high water levels in the Long Lake/Brandy Pond watershed area," according to the statement by the Department of Conservation.” . . . "Unusually heavy rainfall over the past few weeks" has contributed to "above flood stage water levels" in the lock, according to the report. High water levels have caused a stronger, more dangerous current and colder water. Those elements reportedly played a role in the incident Wednesday involving Emmons. The lock will resume normal operations when the water levels fall below flood level, the state noted.”

I have at leaste used a kayak to try and see what all the talk was about. I found it to be extreamly boring and not for me. There is nothing that I am doing that is preventing you from doing what you want, when you want on the lake. The speed limit limits my enjoyment.

And allowing power boats to travel on NH lakes at unlimited speeds limits the enjoyment of many other boaters. And I have experience in operating a powerboat.

I bet if you ever took a ride then you would realize that all your feers are unfounded.

My fears are based on what I have actually experienced on the lake – when high speed boats have violated my 150 foot zone – because they were traveling at unsafe speeds and did not even see our kayaks until the very last second. That is hardly “unfounded.”

I find it interesting that the MP's on most lakes will say that the offshore crowd tends to be the most knowledgable and saftest boaters on the lake as a whole. . . . Yet again we are being singled out.

Actually sea kayakers have one of the best safety records of all boaters.

How are you being singled out? You are not being discriminated against. ALL powerboats that can exceed 45 mph will be affected by the speed limit.

[BroadHopper]

Evenstar's favorite boater, Mr Family Boater, became a major bonehead Sunday around 3 PM. I was approaching the Hole-in-the-wall from the South watching a jetskier appraoching on my port and a Boston Whaler on my starboard. They were ahead of me so i idle down to allow them to line up in front of me. All of a sudden, Mr Family Boat in a 20' pontoon loaded with people came up from behind. This is a no wake and I was signaling to him to slow down. He ignored me and cut in front of me. He cut off the jetskier and the Boston Whaler. Miss the jetskier within inches. On the North side there were kids swimming and jumping off an inflatable trampoline. Mr Family boater motored by within a couple of feet! Then he took off rocking a nearby canoeist with his wake.

So the lake is safe with Mr Family Boater.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

All of a sudden, Mr Family Boat in a 20' pontoon loaded with people came up from behind. This is a no wake and I was signaling to him to slow down. He ignored me and cut in front of me. He cut off the jetskier and the Boston Whaler. Miss the jetskier within inches. On the North side there were kids swimming and jumping off an inflatable trampoline. Mr Family boater motored by within a couple of feet! Then he took off rocking a nearby canoeist with his wake.

So the lake is safe with Mr Family Boater.

BH, how fast was "Mr Family Boater" going? Blasting past everyone at the blistering speed of, oh, 25 mph??? I'm only asking because I was wondering if the upcoming speed limit would have made any difference! My initial guess is, no, it wouldn't!

So much for performance boats being the big problem on the lake!!

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Evenstar's favorite boater, Mr Family Boater,

When did I ever state that this was my "favorite boater"???? My favorite boaters are obviously paddlers and sailers - NOT power boaters.

The speed limit will not solve all problems, because it only addresses speeds above 45 mph (daytime) and above 25 mph at night. But it will make the lake safer, by slowing down the fastest boats.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

When did I ever state that this was my "favorite boater"???? My favorite boaters are obviously paddlers and sailers - NOT power boaters.

The speed limit will not solve all problems, because it only addresses speeds above 45 mph (daytime) and above 25 mph at night. But it will make the lake safer, by slowing down the fastest boats.

The lake could easily be made safer, as could all waterways, by addressing the day to day reality of boating, especially on weekends. If people like you, that have apparently spent a great deal of time with the speed limit issue, could see the end of your noses, safety would be addressed. Pragmatic behavior is not the strong suit of the speed limit crowd. But in their defense, I can see how their false message of safety lured in the naive, while their true agenda went unnoticed. They're happy for now, and the lemmings continue to follow on the same course.

If you guys spent half the time promoting increased enforcement of existing laws, promoted additional funding, etc..., you'd have some credibility. Day in and day out, real boaters (including the GFBL boating groups), have actively promoted enforcement to no avail. While every couch potato idiot in every state cries for speed limit laws after every accident, the one thing that becomes abundantly clear is they don't know safety from a ham sandwich.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

The lake could easily be made safer, as could all waterways, by addressing the day to day reality of boating, especially on weekends. If people like you, that have apparently spent a great deal of time with the speed limit issue, could see the end of your noses, safety would be addressed. Pragmatic behavior is not the strong suit of the speed limit crowd. But in their defense, I can see how their false message of safety lured in the naive, while their true agenda went unnoticed. They're happy for now, and the lemmings continue to follow on the same course.

If you guys spent half the time promoting increased enforcement of existing laws, promoted additional funding, etc..., you'd have some credibility. Day in and day out, real boaters (including the GFBL boating groups), have actively promoted enforcement to no avail. While every couch potato idiot in every state cries for speed limit laws after every accident, the one thing that becomes abundantly clear is they don't know safety from a ham sandwich.

It's not about safety. It never was about safety. We have been saying that from day one until now.

If you guys spent half the time listening that you do pontificating perhaps you would realize that.

And almost every time I post that its not about safety, someone will post something like "AHA! now we know the real reason for the speed limit!"

[VtSteve]

It's not about safety. It never was about safety. We have been saying that from day one until now.

If you guys spent half the time listening that you do pontificating perhaps you would realize that.

And almost every time I post that its not about safety, someone will post something like "AHA! now we know the real reason for the speed limit!"

No BI, I think we're well aware of that by now I think I addressed that subtly in my Lemmings comment. Perhaps the media should publish an article about The Speed Limit, Their Real Intentions., just to make the lemmings feel pretty silly (assuming they even get it).

The joke's on them not you BI.

I assume that the next paddler run over by a pontoon boat going 20 mph will have an enraged public promoting a lowering of the daytime speed limit to 15 mph. Those people clearly don't get it BI. I understand your concerns, and respect them, as I think I pointed out some time ago. I should figure out a way to properly target the intended audience. Tactfully, of course

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

It's not about safety. It never was about safety. We have been saying that from day one until now.

Who is "We?"

Originally Posted by Evenstar

The speed limit will not solve all problems, because it only addresses speeds above 45 mph (daytime) and above 25 mph at night. But it will make the lake safer, by slowing down the fastest boats.

Obviously, to some of you, it is about safety. Perhaps you should take your own advice and read what some of your fellow speed limit proponents are saying.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Rose

Who is "We?"



Obviously, to some of you, it is about safety. Perhaps you should take your own advice and read what some of your fellow speed limit proponents are saying.

And I think people read far to much into the words of speed limit supporters.

Yes, a speed limit will probably make the lake a little safer by lowering the accident rate. That doesn't mean is was the reason for the speed limit. And yes, safety was certainly one of the arguments for having a speed limit. But it was never the principal reason.

It is the OPPOSITION that zeroed in on the safety issue as if it were the central argument or only reason for a speed limit.

Safety is only one of many reasons, and not the principal reason in my opinion or the opinion of the man the wrote the legislation.

How many times have the opposition argued that Winni's low accident rate proves we don't need a speed limit. It is incredible to me that they were unable to see that the accident rate means nothing because it was never the reason for the speed limit.

[Pineedles]

BI,
I don't kayak and don't have a boat that goes over 45 nor do I go out at night in a boat but what is the reason for the speed limit?

[parrothead]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

BI,
I don't kayak and don't have a boat that goes over 45 nor do I go out at night in a boat but what is the reason for the speed limit?

Or at least pass legislation that in their heads will keep this unwanted element off their lake. Because "Right now, many Lake users are afraid of using the Lake at all, or at certain times of the week and at night, due to their fear of the boats driven at excessive speeds. This is not a balanced use of the Lake, as a relative few are using the Lake as their personal racetrack at the expense of the many others who drive smaller, slower motorized boats and non-motorized boats like canoes, kayaks, windsurfers, rowing skuls and rowboats. Anglers and swimmers have also been driven off of the Lake or have been forced to change their Lake usage for fear of their personal safety." (WINNFABS website) They don't like GFBL boats and want them gone. And if their plan works then they will move on to the next undesirable boat Cruisers, and then PWC, and then the Mount Washington, Sophie C, and Doris E. And then all motorized boats. Soon their will only be sail boats, canoes, rowboats, swimmers, and kayaks. After that they will have to limit sailboats because some of those are too big, and catamarans are too fast. Then we will have quiet lake, and everyone will be happy and not so stressed.

[KonaChick]

With the smokescreen of "safety for families" on the lake will anyone believe or support Winfabbs once they propose and support more legislation to get rid of boats with a certain HP? Have they bitten off their noses to spite their faces? These questions will be answered soon enough apparently.

[Resident 2B]

Parrothead,

You nailed it!

That is what they are all about.

Safety was the smoke screen. The lake will not be measureably safer with this law.

They had no intention of dealing with the real issues directly related to safety.

Their actions are un-American in my eyes, using false information and planning a false effort to interfere with the rights of others. But, they bought a study/survey and they lobbied better than the opposition.

Cruisers are next on their hit list, then HP limits.

Wake up (no pun intended) cruiser folks . You are next on their list.

R2B

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

BI,
I don't kayak and don't have a boat that goes over 45 nor do I go out at night in a boat but what is the reason for the speed limit?

Perhaps if you did kayak out on the main lake, you would better understand why a speed limit is necessary. In my opinion, it is insane to allow unlimited speeds on a lake that is populated by small, slow moving boats.

Originally Posted by tis

I have to say I don't know anyone personally who is afraid to use the lake. If people stay away because of even the perception of the lake being dangerous, they had to get that idea from somewhere.

I know and have met many paddlers who are afraid to paddle on Winni. And all the paddlers I know, who feel that the lake is dangerous for paddlers, arrived at this conclusion based on their own personal experience on the lake (based on my conservations with them). For all these people, a lake speed limit is a safety issue. And I thingk that the majority of NH residents who support the lake speed limit, see it as only a safety issue.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Perhaps if you did kayak out on the main lake, you would better understand why a speed limit is necessary. In my opinion, it is insane to allow unlimited speeds on a lake that is populated by small, slow moving boats.


I know and have met many paddlers who are afraid to paddle on Winni. And all the paddlers I know, who feel that the lake is dangerous for paddlers, arrived at this conclusion based on their own personal experience on the lake (based on my conservations with them). For all these people, a lake speed limit is a safety issue. And I thingk that the majority of NH residents who support the lake speed limit, see it as only a safety issue.

I've been kayaking and canoeing on Winni long before you have. The biggest gripe I have and other paddlers and sailboaters have is the 150' violation. Not speed. I have yet to meet a paddler who will personally tell me they fear a GFBL boat! They fear the family boater.

As far as paddling on the Broads. With the everchanging New Hampshire weather, it will be foolish to be out in the middle of the Broads without a PFD. I see it many times. I see many kayakers in dark kayaks with dark paddles and they are difficult to see. Especially when there are white caps. Don't tell me that kayakers are the safest people on Earth. I have rescued many kayakers and canoeists who are 'over their heads' in bad weather. They thank me because I have the boat big enough for rescue.
My GFBL boat became a kayak 'savior'. Not a kayak 'killer'.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I've been kayaking and canoeing on Winni long before you have. The biggest gripe I have and other paddlers and sailboaters have is the 150' violation. Not speed. I have yet to meet a paddler who will personally tell me they fear a GFBL boat! They fear the family boater.

You (and many others here) keep acting like the speed limit only affects GFBL boats, when it affects ALL boats that can exceed 45 mph. I have never singled out GFBL boats. And I and many other paddlers have had experienced close calls on wini from high-speed boats. I'm not making this up.

As far as paddling on the Broads. With the everchanging New Hampshire weather, it will be foolish to be out in the middle of the Broads without a PFD. I see it many times. I see many kayakers in dark kayaks with dark paddles and they are difficult to see. Especially when there are white caps. Don't tell me that kayakers are the safest people on Earth. I have rescued many kayakers and canoeists who are 'over their heads' in bad weather

Now you're judging all kayakers on the actions of a few inexperienced recreational kayakers. That would be like me judging all powerboaters on the actions of one "captain bonehead."

I never kayak without my PFD - no matter where I paddle. And I always dress for the water temperature and take extra clothing and gear with me. I have never been "over my head" on the water - and I have never needed to be rescued. I have been trained to do rescues - both with a kayak and with a powerboat.

My sea kayak is bright red and my friend's kayak is bright yellow, yet we have nearly bee run over by high-speed powerboaters on winni.

Sea kayakers do have one of the best safey records of all boaters - with the lowest percentage of fatalities of all boaters.

[chase1]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

And I think people read far to much into the words of speed limit supporters.

Yes, a speed limit will probably make the lake a little safer by lowering the accident rate. That doesn't mean is was the reason for the speed limit. And yes, safety was certainly one of the arguments for having a speed limit. But it was never the principal reason.

It is the OPPOSITION that zeroed in on the safety issue as if it were the central argument or only reason for a speed limit.

Safety is only one of many reasons, and not the principal reason in my opinion or the opinion of the man the wrote the legislation.

How many times have the opposition argued that Winni's low accident rate proves we don't need a speed limit. It is incredible to me that they were unable to see that the accident rate means nothing because it was never the reason for the speed limit.

Directly from the Winnfabs website. Only the Bold parts are related to safety.

WHY A SPEED LIMIT??
What is the problem and why is HB 847 the solution?

Lakes Region Economic Health
Safety
Equal Access or Management

Lakes Region Economic Health
Speed limits and safety go hand-in-hand with the family-friendly vacation destination image that the Lakes Region and New Hampshire have successfully created, thereby supporting the tourism industry on which this region’s (and State’s) economy depends and thrives.

As Senator Carl Johnson states, "New Hampshire’s tourism industry is essential to the economic growth and stability of our state. Visitor dollars not only benefit New Hampshire’s businesses, but ultimately benefit all of our citizens."

If Lake Winnipesaukee and the Lakes Region are known as a safe and enjoyable place to visit with family and friends, more vacationers will come, they will come more often, and they will spend more recreational dollars on boating, swimming, fishing, shopping, eating meals, staying in lodging, going to local attractions, buying gas for their boats and cars and doing other activities. This will yield the ultimate benefits of vacationers having a wonderful time and the economy being boosted by their spending. Everyone wins.

However, if more and more families and individuals decide that Lake Winnipesaukee is too dangerous and unpleasant to boat or use, their taking their recreational dollars elsewhere could negatively affect the image and economy of the Lake and the Lake’s Region, even that of New Hampshire. It is imperative to prevent this from happening before the problem grows out of control.

New Hampshire has speed limits on its highways, its 7000 miles of State-owned backwoods trails and many of its lakes and ponds. Placing the reasonable, commonsense 45/25 MPH speed limits on its largest lake would be consistent with the State’s protecting users of all of its major natural resources by saying to tourists and residents alike, "We are serious about you and your family’s safety when you use Lake Winnipesaukee--whether you live here or are visiting.

Safety
HB 847 sets reasonable, commonsense 45 MPH daytime and 25 MPH nighttime speed limits on the Lake, which will slow everyone down, allowing more reaction and stopping time. This will, in turn, allow better prevention of boating accidents and close calls for the public safety of all.

Lake Winnipesaukee is a family vacation destination, not a race track. Just as we have speed limits on our highways, the boat congestion on Lake Winnipesaukee and the increasing number of boats traveling at speeds in excess of 45 mph is a cause for alarm.

Boats have no brakes, brake lights, head lights or side mirrors. And Lake Winnipesaukee, unlike our highways, doesn’t have lane markings, traffic signs, traffic lights. What the lake does have is a highly inconsistent surface (bumpy waves), wind and often compromised visibility supporting its varied lake users, frequently children, teens and families in small craft.

Imagine driving a car across a parking lot at highway speed. Imagine a variety of traffic traveling at speeds ranging from 5 - 80+ mph. Imagine no traffic signs, no lane dividers, no turns signals. Now, imagine suddenly running into a series of 3-ft deep potholes. You don’t need to imagine this situation. You need to boat on Lake Winnipesaukee.

Equal Access or Management
Right now, many Lake users are afraid of using the Lake at all, or at certain times of the week and at night, due to their fear of the boats driven at excessive speeds. This is not a balanced use of the Lake, as a relative few are using the Lake as their personal racetrack at the expense of the many others who drive smaller, slower motorized boats and non-motorized boats like canoes, kayaks, windsurfers, rowing skuls and rowboats. Anglers and swimmers have also been driven off of the Lake or have been forced to change their Lake usage for fear of their personal safety.

The 45/25 speed limits will allow a more safe and enjoyable co-existence of many types of Lake pursuits simultaneously. Everyone’s stress levels will be reduced with more safely manageable, controllable boat speeds, as they boat, fish or otherwise enjoy the Lake. The legislative objectives of HB 847 are safety, simple fairness, and equal access, and it treats all boats the same. It does not single out a specific boat brand or model. Just as highway speed limits do not restrict the right of citizens to purchase high performance cars, HB 847 doesn’t restrict the right to own and operate a certain boat. Just as we all own cars that can go faster than the speed limits on the road, people can own boats that can go faster than the 45 MPH and 25 MPH speed limits. However, public safety laws should prevent the use of boats at speeds which place other users of the public waterways at risk and therefore, prevent equal access to the Lake by everyone.

Chase1

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by chase1

Directly from the Winnfabs website. Only the Bold parts are related to safety.

Chase1

Actually most of the parts you put in bold are not about safety. They are about fear. If people stay away from the lake because of the PERCEPTION the lake is dangerous, that effects tourism.

The lake had a growing reputation for thrill-seeking. That kept some people away and caused other to leave. Human being being what they are, a reputation of danger actually becomes more important than the actual statistics. That may not seem fair, but it's very real.

[tis]

I have to say I don't know anyone personally who is afraid to use the lake. If people stay away because of even the perception of the lake being dangerous, they had to get that idea from somewhere. I think BI knows where.

[BroadHopper]

That is what I have been saying all along! They want the lake to be like Masebesic Lake. Limit HP and size! I and others overheard the speed limits proponents talking about it during a legislature hearing. Do a search in the speed limit section. About what one of the bill sponsors have to say about SeaRay boats.

[Silver Duck]

BI

I wasn't going to become involved in this thread again, but I can't let the idea that the lakes region is actually interested in promoting tourism pass un-challenged.

Actions speak louder than words. If the NH and the people of the lakes region truly want to promote tourism:

- Why do some of your Meredith Neck neighbors get away with referring to tourists as "undesirable transients" in Meredith board meetings without being shouted down?

- Why do they get away with using the term "RV Park on the water" as a put-down in connection with marinas without their attitudes being adjusted by town officials?

- Why has the Marine Patrol put cove after cove off limits to rafting by administrative rule (including most of the good sand bars)? This is particularly offensive to a tourist, since merely being anchored too close to another boat in such areas is grounds for being rousted by the MP.

- For that matter, why does the MP put any effort at all into rousting rafters when they could be busting Captain Bonehead for major safety violations?

- Why did NH put a major road block in the way of vacationers bringing boats to the lake (i.e., requiring a proctored exam in connection with the safety certificate, which, by personal experience and a great number of postings, seems to be turning out to be almost useless)?

- Why did NH let the shorefront residents get away with makng Squam all but inaccessible to tourists for a couple of years?

- Why do NH folks go around with insulting bumper stickers (even on boats) with slogans such as "Leave your wallet, but LEAVE" or "It's Tourist Season, so why can't I shoot them"?

- Etc. ad nauseum!

Over the last few years, it's become my considered and dejected opinion that tourists are about as welcome in the lakes region as typhoid carriers!

Silver Duck

[chase1]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Actually most of the parts you put in bold are not about safety. They are about fear. If people stay away from the lake because of the PERCEPTION the lake is dangerous, that effects tourism.

Like this one part where they reference fear of there personal safety
"Right now, many Lake users are afraid of using the Lake at all, or at certain times of the week and at night, due to their fear of the boats driven at excessive speeds. This is not a balanced use of the Lake, as a relative few are using the Lake as their personal racetrack at the expense of the many others who drive smaller, slower motorized boats and non-motorized boats like canoes, kayaks, windsurfers, rowing skuls and rowboats. Anglers and swimmers have also been driven off of the Lake or have been forced to change their Lake usage for fear of their personal safety."

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

The lake had a growing reputation for thrill-seeking. That kept some people away and caused other to leave. Human being being what they are, a reputation of danger actually becomes more important than the actual statistics. That may not seem fair, but it's very real.

It does not seem fair however I am aware and accept that life itself is not fair......again I reference your group:

Winnfabs-"The legislative objectives of HB 847 are safety, simple fairness, and equal access, and it treats all boats the same"

Anyone aware that the "reputation of danger" was indeed unfounded according to statistics should have done the right thing and worked to correct that perception. Instead many like yourself actually fueled it. Some in the name of "safety" as promoted by the bill creators, and you for your proclaimed agenda.

Thank you to all who opposed this law.

Chase1

[KonaChick]

Has Winnfabs cut of their nose to spit their face? Will they be believed the next time they try to get legislation passed which apparently is now focused on HP limits? Will the boating population organize against them this time in a more focused way to put them out of business?? Stay tuned.....

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by chase1

Like this one part where they reference fear of there personal safety
"Right now, many Lake users are afraid of using the Lake at all, or at certain times of the week and at night, due to their fear of the boats driven at excessive speeds. This is not a balanced use of the Lake, as a relative few are using the Lake as their personal racetrack at the expense of the many others who drive smaller, slower motorized boats and non-motorized boats like canoes, kayaks, windsurfers, rowing skuls and rowboats. Anglers and swimmers have also been driven off of the Lake or have been forced to change their Lake usage for fear of their personal safety."


It does not seem fair however I am aware and accept that life itself is not fair......again I reference your group:

Winnfabs-"The legislative objectives of HB 847 are safety, simple fairness, and equal access, and it treats all boats the same"

Anyone aware that the "reputation of danger" was indeed unfounded according to statistics should have done the right thing and worked to correct that perception. Instead many like yourself actually fueled it. Some in the name of "safety" as promoted by the bill creators, and you for your proclaimed agenda.

Thank you to all who opposed this law.

Chase1

Once again what I actually said is twisted into what you want it to say.

The accident statistics are more than enough to justify a speed limit.

I post that the reputation for danger has more effect on the general public than the actual statistic. And you think that means the lake safe.

The statistics are bad, the reputation is worse.




WinnFABS is not "my group". I take no credit or responsibility for their publications. I represent my own opinions, they are not always the same as WinnFABS.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

And I think people read far to much into the words of speed limit supporters.

What are people supposed to think when one of the largest groups who lobbied for passage of this bill contains the word "safety" in their acronym?